I want to do a little experiment with fish and bonsais and I want to show you

Will it work?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • No (can you tell why?)

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9

Bon Sai

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Hi guys!

Well last summer I started with bonsais, or rather projects, and I was looking at a seed seller's website, and they had bald cypress seeds and this gave me an idea: I could try to grow them in an aquarium. I had some glasses at home and so I've been building an aquarium. Today I've finished it after months of hard work :rolleyes:

IMG_20171212_185632.jpg
This is it. It's flat and broad (24"x24"x5") as I want it to ressemble a swamp. Anyway, the glass is to thin for a normal aquarium. It is dark, which I like because it looks more "swampy". Also, it has a waterfall.

Ok, now the technical thing.

IMG_20171212_192609.jpg
The bonsais will be in these trays.

IMG_20171212_183644.jpg
As you can see, there is a mesh inside. This will suck the water.

IMG_20171212_184743.jpg
This is the pump.

IMG_20171212_203836.jpg
I have filled the trays with a mix of zeolite and volcanic earth. As you can see, I can adjust the height of the trays thanks to the bolts, so I can choose if the tree has the trunk inside or not. Ok, my idea is: I will feed the fish, the fish will produce faeces, the pump will suck water through the soil of the bonsais, which will cause the faeces and whatnot to be trapped there and feed the trees, then the water will fall through the waterfall which will add oxigen to it. And it is cute, too.

I want to plant a bald cypress, a red maple and a tupelo. I'd like to plant something on the waterfall stone, too, but no idea what (suggestions accepted). I'm still waiting for the seeds to germinate, so for now there will be just fish. I want them to be of very little species, so they look more proportionate to the trees. They have to be cold water fish. Any suggestions?

I wanted to add a video of it working but it says file too big :(
 
Last edited:

Anthony

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As I understand it, the microbes, release N.P and K plus other micro nutrients,
into the soil.
So if you use fish poop, and the microbes act on it, the same will happen
in the water.

Basically hydroponics --------- if the roots can collect oxygen.

You are also adding the food for the fish.
Good Day
Anthony
 

A. Gorilla

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If you are giving this enough light to make the trees happy, and if your fish are producing enough waste to give the trees meaningful nutrition, I would predict crazy algae growth.

Consider making the trees a modular component. Easy to take in and out, but don't rely on your little ecosystem to support the trees (if you want the trees to thrive). A nice plant to use for these types of situations are pothos. The nice part is they don't need intense light.

Under-stock with fish. Have just a few to catch your eye and be tastefully unassuming.
 

theone420

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....... I would predict crazy algae growth................
plecostomus you know algae fish. a couple of those would love the algae. and they would look like giant whale sharks in comparison to the trees(they even have the shark look)


maybe if you make the pots sit in the water but not have holes so the only time the water goes through the soil is when the pump is turned on. you could set it on a timer to water the plants every so often. But that would only be needed if the trees don't take to being wet all the time.
 

theone420

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the ones in our small pond always did a good job but we didn't feed the fish they had to feed themselves for the most part. We had our own little eco system going with catfish eating the gambusia(and hand fed bologna) and gambusia eating the mosquitos and plecos eating the algae. and a few gold fish and koi to make it pretty. we did feed the koi occasionally but they didnt leave anything for the other fish to eat. lol

come to think of it Im sure the catfish ate their fair share of algae too.
 

A. Gorilla

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Problem is, they eat algae off rocks and other surfaces besides glass. Yet, the glass is the ONE thing you wanna keep perfect, but I guess the fish have other priorities.
 

AZbonsai

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Yes, pathos do do well in hydroponics! I have had this system up and running for almost 5 years. I have tilapia in my tank. The amount of light you will need to keep trees healthy is a big issue...and the trees need to be on the aquatic side of the spectrum...not even sure I could name a tree that might survive...maybe a bald cypress.
20171212_150600-3024x2268.jpg
20171212_150626-2268x3024.jpg
 

GrimLore

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I have filled the trays with a mix of zeolite and volcanic earth. As you can see, I can adjust the height of the trays thanks to the bolts, so I can choose if the tree has the trunk inside or not. Ok, my idea is: I will feed the fish, the fish will produce faeces, the pump will suck water through the soil of the bonsais, which will cause the faeces and whatnot to be trapped there and feed the trees, then the water will fall through the waterfall which will add oxigen to it. And it is cute, too.

I want to plant a bald cypress, a red maple and a tupelo. I'd like to plant something on the waterfall stone, too, but no idea what (suggestions accepted). I'm still waiting for the seeds to germinate, so for now there will be just fish. I want them to be of very little species, so they look more proportionate to the trees. They have to be cold water fish. Any suggestions?

The "stands" for planting will work for Bald Cypress and Tupelo if raised up so lets say the first year they are submerged no more then an inch. Bad part is they need to be out of the water for a bit AND get dormant. Here they get pulled from water soaked in November and go back to water soaked in March. During that time they chill off, change color, go dormant. I know of no Maple that can handle that, much less more as you suggest. I am not shitting on your parade and have some suggestions. ;)

Do you have an average temperature and humidity level in there? Very important consideration as the light will most likely keep it a LOT warmer then you think.

I have a few plants that will live in there as designed if you want to chat it. I am currently growing 5 types in an Exo Terra and having success while seeing failures for a few Crystal experimented with.

The theory and climate is difficult fully enclosed but you have a good start and could work out a real nice display.

There is a simple solution for algae depending on the fish you want in there as long as the water is circulating... old school. I would advise small Koi or cool Goldfish to start using my methods.

Back to the original question - you certainly could experiment for years or leech the information I have gained by calling me or me calling you - PM me and save yourself the insanity with a number ;)

Grimmy
 

A. Gorilla

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At
Yes, pathos do do well in hydroponics! I have had this system up and running for almost 5 years. I have tilapia in my tank. The amount of light you will need to keep trees healthy is a big issue...and the trees need to be on the aquatic side of the spectrum...not even sure I could name a tree that might survive...maybe a bald cypress.
View attachment 171013
View attachment 171014

At Chicago’s Shedd aquarium, and the Brookfield zoo, they have pothos just growing in the water for some of their freshwater displays. Nothing fancy or complicated. Just chuck in some cuttings. Apparently they go nuts just like that.
 

sp1tf1re

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I like the thought of doing an aquaponic system. But I agree with the others, that the plant really needs to able to handle sitting in water like that. If the conditions are right and you get the correct balance of plant to fish you shouldn't have too much algae growth.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Bon Sai - Your tank looks great. Good engineering. I for one think it can work. You did not mention whether this is indoors or outdoors. If outdoors you did not mention what part of the country you are in, so we could offer better suggestions for culture.

Could work for a mix of species and locations.

Outdoors, set with at least 6 hours of direct sun daily - Bald cypress and Water Tupelo could grow well. Both species adapt to Florida winters, if you are far enough south that the water never freezes, or if you have a fish tank heater keeping the water warmer than freezing, the Tupelo and Bald Cypress will go through a normal dormancy. Both species need at least half day of sun, better would be full sun for good growth. Fish choices would have to be species that would survive cool water in winter. Native to Florida species might be a good idea. Flag Fish - a native killifish might work, gambusia, possibly Endler's guppies, though they might not like the cold. White cloud mountain minnows tolerate cold well. Button bush, and willows might also be good choices. I would start with seedlings that are over a year or two old rather than wait for seed to sprout.

Indoors. - you probably would not be able to provide enough light. I suggest a minimum of a 4 lamp high output T5 fixture, 5500K to 6700K, positioned no more than 9 inches above the foliage of your trees. Lights should be on a timer, at least 12 to 18 hours per day. Then choose tropical or subtropical species listed as shade tolerant. Check out Crinodendron. They are listed as swamp dwelling trees from Chile and Peru, there are 2 species available in the USA, one with white, the other with red flowers. pretty exothic, the white flowered species has small leaves. You will be in ''unknown territory'' in that aquatic growing is not a common method, but surf the web, you may find some interesting species. Key is the species chosen must tolerate shade, trees requiring full sun like bald cypress and Japanese black pines will not grow well under even the most high tech lights available
Indoors your fish choices are very wide, I really like Endlers guppies, as they are smaller than the common guppy, brighter metallic colors and very close to ''wild'' like gambusia for fin size and shape. No exaggerated veil tails. Mostly round tails and or short sword tails.
 

Bon Sai

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@Bon Sai - Your tank looks great. Good engineering. I for one think it can work. You did not mention whether this is indoors or outdoors. If outdoors you did not mention what part of the country you are in, so we could offer better suggestions for culture.

Could work for a mix of species and locations.

Outdoors, set with at least 6 hours of direct sun daily - Bald cypress and Water Tupelo could grow well. Both species adapt to Florida winters, if you are far enough south that the water never freezes, or if you have a fish tank heater keeping the water warmer than freezing, the Tupelo and Bald Cypress will go through a normal dormancy. Both species need at least half day of sun, better would be full sun for good growth. Fish choices would have to be species that would survive cool water in winter. Native to Florida species might be a good idea. Flag Fish - a native killifish might work, gambusia, possibly Endler's guppies, though they might not like the cold. White cloud mountain minnows tolerate cold well. Button bush, and willows might also be good choices. I would start with seedlings that are over a year or two old rather than wait for seed to sprout.

Indoors. - you probably would not be able to provide enough light. I suggest a minimum of a 4 lamp high output T5 fixture, 5500K to 6700K, positioned no more than 9 inches above the foliage of your trees. Lights should be on a timer, at least 12 to 18 hours per day. Then choose tropical or subtropical species listed as shade tolerant. Check out Crinodendron. They are listed as swamp dwelling trees from Chile and Peru, there are 2 species available in the USA, one with white, the other with red flowers. pretty exothic, the white flowered species has small leaves. You will be in ''unknown territory'' in that aquatic growing is not a common method, but surf the web, you may find some interesting species. Key is the species chosen must tolerate shade, trees requiring full sun like bald cypress and Japanese black pines will not grow well under even the most high tech lights available
Indoors your fish choices are very wide, I really like Endlers guppies, as they are smaller than the common guppy, brighter metallic colors and very close to ''wild'' like gambusia for fin size and shape. No exaggerated veil tails. Mostly round tails and or short sword tails.
It is indoors. Ok, then bald cypress not an option. Pity.
 

cbroad

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@Bon Sai
I think ficus would work well too, as long as you can keep the water oxygenated enough. Hopefully your waterfall makes enough of a splash, and a simple air pump would help a lot. Oxygen dissolves best in 68° water, so around room temperature should be sufficient. I have a hydroponic ficus experiment going and it's working out well: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ficus-experiment.27965/
 
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