Interesting discussion on bunjin and wabi-sabi

[Dan W.]

Here is a link to a very interesting post and discussion about bunjin and wabi-sabi:

http://bonsaibark.com/2012/12/04/moving-out-of-the-bonsai-mainstream-with-a-deft-and-delicate-touch/

I know some of you here are experience with this kind of work and I would be very greatful to anyone willing to share their experience and knowledge about these subjects.

I believe some of this has alredy been discussed on the forum, so if you know where please link the pages so I know where to go.

Some starter questions would be:

1) What do you look for in a masterpiece bunjin/literati?

2) How would you describe wabi-sabi?

3) What type of stroy speaks most deeply to you in a tree of this style?

(here is a dictionary description of wabi sabi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

 

[Dan W.]

Here's another link:

http://bonsaibark.com/2012/12/06/theres-bunjin-and-then-theres/

 

[Dan W.]

I believe October or Smoke had some interesting things to say about bunjin/literati...but I can't remember. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[Gene Deci]

Andy Rutledge's understanding of how the components of a work of art combine to produce that dramatic "wow" feeling is something that applies well to bonsai - but is not widely appreciated in our community. We often just let the "rules" be our guide, or not, without really grasping why. I admit that I'm a repeat offender in this regard but when I hear of something Andy has written, I always try to read it.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

when I hear of something Andy has written, I always try to read it.

Me too...wasn't he around in the old rec.arts.bonsai days? Seem to remember him from the mid '90s.

 

[jk_lewis]

Me too...wasn't he around in the old rec.arts.bonsai days? Seem to remember him from the mid '90s.

Not quite as far back as rec.arts.bonsai, but Andy came on the scene shortly after the IBC got its first website and was still trying to maintain the newsgroup/mailing list.

 

[october]

I believe October or Smoke had some interesting things to say about bunjin/literati...but I can't remember. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Hi Dan..I don't know if it was me.. This was a comment I made about Bunjin about a week or so ago.

"Sometimes we tend to focus on the 6:1 height ratio.. If something deviates from that, it sometimes has bunjin characteristic, but is not a bunjin."

I also receive those emails from bonsai bark. They are very informative and the pictures that he sends are always amazing. I previously saw the trees in the link you posted in this thread. Personally, I think all the plants are beautiful. However, they are not bonsai. I do not mean this in a negative connotation what so ever. The leaves on the tree are like 5-10 times the size of the trunk. If these where considered bonsai, they we would have to say that every potted plant, on a patio or window sill, that is in a slightly smaller pot than you would normally expect, is considered bonsai.

Bunjin is probably my favorite style (also, informal upright). Bunjin has a certain essence to it. It is probably the only style that can only be appreciated after being in bonsai for some time. All the other styles can be somewhat understood in a short time period..a cascade is a sweeping tree, a slant is a slanting tree etc.. However, a bunjin is a style that commands respect. Respect for the time that nature took to create it, which in turn can only be appreciated by people that have taken the time to study bonsai. It is a cooperation of time on both sides, man and tree.

Rob

 

[Dan W.]

Bunjin is probably my favorite style (also, informal upright). Bunjin has a certain essence to it. It is probably the only style that can only be appreciated after being in bonsai for some time. All the other styles can be somewhat understood in a short time period..a cascade is a sweeping tree, a slant is a slanting tree etc.. However, a bunjin is a style that commands respect. Respect for the time that nature took to create it, which in turn can only be appreciated by people that have taken the time to study bonsai. It is a cooperation of time on both sides, man and tree.

Rob

Thanks Rob,

I agree that it takes a much onger to appreciate the bunjin form, but I do think there are things that can speed this appreciation up. For instance; I'm fairly new to bonsai, but I have grown up in and around the mountains, surrounded by twisted gnarly trees that often grow natually in forms very similar to the bunjin style bonsai. Because of this I would also say that bunjin is one of my very favorite styles of bonsai.

That said, I fully understand that you likely have a much deeper appreciation for.. and understanding of these trees; that is exactly what I'm prying at in this thread.

-- Side note, I would very much classify the pine clump in the posting as bonsai, Am I wrong in this? The re-posted virt is even better though. -- Also, the maple I discussed in that thread may not fit many of the bonsai criteria but I does speak to me as a piece of art.-- I agree whole-heartedly about the others- Interesting potted plants, but not really bonsai.

Thanks for your response

 

[october]

Hi Dan.. The pine is a bonsai.. A nice and natural looking one at that. Also, I agree with you about your appreciation being more advanced from having witnessed these beautiful trees in their natural mountain setting. It must truly be a site to behold in person. In actuallity, you may have a deeper appreciation than I for the style. It was taught to me by man. You were taught by nature itself.

Rob

 

[Dan W.]

Hi Dan.. The pine is a bonsai.. A nice and natural looking one at that. Also, I agree with you about your appreciation being more advanced from having witnessed these beautiful trees in their natural mountain setting. It must truly be a site to behold in person. In actuallity, you may have a deeper appreciation than I for the style. It was taught to me by man. You were taught by nature itself.

Rob

Rob,

I wish I could say that I fully appreciated these trees as I should have growing up, but in reality I didn't. I admired them every so often for their gnraly twisted trunks or their size; but it wasn't until I was introduced to bonsai that I truly began to appreciate and understand what these trees embody. The stuggle they have faced and overcome...their ancient history. (Most of them far far older than me!)

It really is an awesome privelege we have to care for trees like this, and even participate in their future development!

 

[fore]

Hi Dan..I don't know if it was me.. This was a comment I made about Bunjin about a week or so ago.

"Sometimes we tend to focus on the 6:1 height ratio.. If something deviates from that, it sometimes has bunjin characteristic, but is not a bunjin."

I also receive those emails from bonsai bark. They are very informative and the pictures that he sends are always amazing. I previously saw the trees in the link you posted in this thread. Personally, I think all the plants are beautiful. However, they are not bonsai. I do not mean this in a negative connotation what so ever. The leaves on the tree are like 5-10 times the size of the trunk. If these where considered bonsai, they we would have to say that every potted plant, on a patio or window sill, that is in a slightly smaller pot than you would normally expect, is considered bonsai.

Bunjin is probably my favorite style (also, informal upright). Bunjin has a certain essence to it. It is probably the only style that can only be appreciated after being in bonsai for some time. All the other styles can be somewhat understood in a short time period..a cascade is a sweeping tree, a slant is a slanting tree etc.. However, a bunjin is a style that commands respect. Respect for the time that nature took to create it, which in turn can only be appreciated by people that have taken the time to study bonsai. It is a cooperation of time on both sides, man and tree.

Rob

Rob, so are you saying the 'rules' for a Bunjin is 6:1...Ht:Trunk width?

Cool conversation guys!

 

[october]

Hi fore.. No, the general rule for bonsai, excluding bunjin, is that for every 6 inches of height, there should be 1 inch of trunk. For example, an informal upright tree that is 12 inches tall should have about a 2 inch trunk. That is just a general formula. Of course, some trees have more or less trunk girth. I believe that rule is in place so the tree actually looks like a full size tree. Bunjin is the exception to this rule. Bunjin tend to have slimmer trunks but greater height. Thats is one of the things that is unique. They may have a thinner trunk, but still show great age. Normally, thin trunk trees are thought of as young. In the case of bunjin, they are ancient looking, yet still have the thin trunk.

A tree is either a bunjin or not. It is not like the other styles where you can turn a tree on its side and create a cascade or a formal upright. In which case, you can put bends in the trunk and you have an informal upright. Although we can bring out the characteristics in a tree to make it a better bunjin. We cannot create an old tree with a thin trunk with our hands.

Rob

 

[october]

p.s. Here are some nice examples of bunjin.

 

[Gene Deci]

One of the hardest things to accomplish with bunjin is a healthy looking tree that also evokes the wabi-sabi impression. I think both are necessary in a fine bunjin and they are not mutually exclusive. But that is really hard to achieve. I like the sparness of the foliage and the dead wood past the apex of #2. That one works best for me. I might even remove the large caliper branch coming forward in the foliage. Hard to tell from a picture. Thanks for posting those examples.

 

[kakejiku]

I understand this is a subject on bunjin style, but it was mentioned earlier about attaining this feeling of wabi/sabi. I have heard much commentary from others that this is making an art object look aged or old, even though it is new. An online dictionary I use actually describes it as:

an aesthetic sense in Japanese art emphasizing quiet simplicity and subdued refinement.

This is a great definition, but I often wonder why...This seems counter to how art is approached in the West, where the most outlandish, bright, and cutting edge art helps both the works themselves and the artist to stand apart from peers and attain a rock star status.

I try to look at a deeper meaning by analyzing the words themselves. 侘び Wabi can be used as an adjective as in wabishii to describe a wretched, miserable or lonely state. It can also be used as a verb in wabiru to to be worried or to long or pine for something. Wabigoto is a phrase used to mean apologetic. 寂び I have heard most often in Japanese to mean lonely or lonesome, but can also mean longing. For example Sabishisou desu ne, would be a phrase saying you look lonely.

Looking at it from a cultural perspective, being Japanese means conforming to a norm and fitting into your role and not sticking out. I do not know how many times I have sat in a meeting filled with Japanese and Western people and a question is asked of everyone to answer...Invariably the Japanese person even if they know the answer will not volunteer to answer, and will only answer if specifically called upon. If an artist has the talent to make something extraordinary, perhaps they try to acheive this with this subdued refinement, that is superior without making them "alone" or set apart from the peers in the group. In other words they are being apologetic for sticking out from the other works, but not in an outlandish or garish way as in the West.

As for the bunjin style, the wabi sabi effect is perhaps more literal. In nature, if we see these stunted trees, they are likely alone and by themselves, because they are the only ones to survive the harsh conditions that have put them in this unenviable place. In this case the tree is actually "alone" and "lonely" acheiving this sense of the word more literally...

Just my two cents...FWIW.

 

[Gene Deci]

Just my two cents...FWIW.

I like your two cents worht. Thanks.

For a work of art to be not just visually beautiful but to also connect emtionally with the viewer probably says as much about the viewer as the artist. A good bunjin to me is lonely, deprived and stoic - if not sad. So how can a tree be sad? It can't, but art can.

 

[fore]

I like your two cents worht. Thanks.

For a work of art to be not just visually beautiful but to also connect emtionally with the viewer probably says as much about the viewer as the artist. A good bunjin to me is lonely, deprived and stoic - if not sad. So how can a tree be sad? It can't, but art can.

I'm not sure I agree. To me a good bunjin promotes an image of a "scraper". It's survived harsh conditions and won't die despite what nature throws at it I too like the second example Rob, thanks for posting!

 

[ghues]

I think we see it in similar terms but our descriptions that have been expressed are based on our own exposures to this style.....they are survivors....the ambassadors of their species....the wise ones....
Cheers Graham