Beng
Omono
I get it they're all the same tree. How many years have you been working on this guy?
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Itioigawa Shimpaku
- Thread starter tmmason10
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
That's true but I didn't want you or anyone else to think they were being entrapped, neither did I intend to single you or anyone else out. What I did want to show is that given the right circumstances you cannot tell these trees apart. I intend to post some more photos of some other trees and see what happens. AND I still don't know what I have.
Beng
Omono
I think I edited my post above as you were responding. I have both types ill try to get some close ups of the scales today or tomorrow.
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
I believe pics 3rd, 4th, and 5th are of all same tree at different stages.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I would appreciate the efforts. There is still a lot of confusion in my own mind about this tree; I did not know until this morning that the Shimpaku is considered a separate tree from the Kishu and the Itowigawa. So now I am trying to identify between 3 varieties of Sargent Junipers.
fore
Omono
I have 1 Kishu, 1 Itoigawa, and 2 sl. diff. Shimpakus. The latter with sl. diff. shades of dark green. Itoigawa is extremely fine foliage and bright green color. If you have one, it's easy to tell the diff. b/w the others. I only got a good handle on the differences after I got one of each. Side by side, it's very easy to tell the difference imo.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
My problem is; when I got my Shimpakus no one was concerned about anything other than they were Shimpaku. The ones I purchased were not labeled the cuttings I was given were not labeled. So still to this day I do not know for certain what they are. In reality I don't give a rat's hiney I am really only concerned about doing bonsai but I had my share of derision when I first started growing Mugo Pines many years ago. The criticism was not based on fact but on wrong perception. I am starting to get that same feeling with the Shimpaku controversy. As it was in the past: You can not grow a decent bonsai from a Mugo Pine, today we are seeing the idea forwarded that you cannot make a good Juniper bonsai unless you use Itowigawa Shimpaku. Those who like the Itowigawa can't seem to help themselves in trying to diminish the value of the Kishu or the Shimpaku (if it is actually a seperate tree) as being less than optimal and are second rate to the one and only Itowigawa, praise God and pass the potatoes.
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fore
Omono
I've not gotten that feeling Vance, though you've been here longer than I. Ideally, you should grow what you like, and if you're planning on grafting...this is where the genus selection is important. I don't think the small/fine, thin/tender Itoigawa would look good on a lg. old tree (Kishu would be great due to it's larger foliage), but on something like a procumbens, it'd be wonderful. This is why I have some of each. I plan on learning grafting from M. Hagedorn and will def. try this on some of my conifers over the next few yrs.
Beng
Omono
First Kishu clumped up with Kiyozuru
Next Itoigawa next to a Kiyozuru
Next Itoigawa next to a Kiyozuru
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tmmason10
Omono
Just a quick health update. I believe the second picture is the front/angle I originally wanted to work with. I'm going to remove the wire this weekend so I can rework it next summer. Looks like itoigawa to everyone? Jk.
fore
Omono
My guess Tom is Kishu. My Kishu has that nice color, and the new growth tips extends like that with loose growth foliage till it matures. My Itoigawa is a brighter green, and the new growth is small, tight and thinner. It's very 'dainty' in comparison to Shimpaku or Kishu.
tmmason10
Omono
Hi Chris, the color might be a bit off because I corrected it on my phone before posting. It looks exactly like the itoigawa in Brian's photos, definitely not the deeper tree that kishu has. Maybe I'll pick up a kishu so I can say I have both.
John Romano
Mame
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Ris
Shohin
Ben, in the 3rd pic what's the order lower left normal upper right kiyozuru?
swingbiker86
Seedling
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kiyozuru itoigawa.
california bonsai studio in thousand oaks california has kiyozuru itoigawa.
california bonsai studio in thousand oaks california has kiyozuru itoigawa.
Beng
Omono
In the third pic the lower left Is itoigawa the upper right of that pic is Kiyozuru.
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Ris
Shohin
Reason I asked, picked up 2 specimen trees today and a kishu shimpaku from Gary ishii.
I was there yesterday also but kinda later and was getting chilly lol.
In my view of itoigawa, I like its flat formation and compactness in foliage, on another hand the kishu foliage color is great outstanding if you will.
Would I favor 1 over the other no, my first choice is movement, second branching and last what style to work towards. Today my eye was only for a cascade style which I found 2 and couldn't choose 1 over the other so got both lol it just so happens both itoigawa.
I was there yesterday also but kinda later and was getting chilly lol.
In my view of itoigawa, I like its flat formation and compactness in foliage, on another hand the kishu foliage color is great outstanding if you will.
Would I favor 1 over the other no, my first choice is movement, second branching and last what style to work towards. Today my eye was only for a cascade style which I found 2 and couldn't choose 1 over the other so got both lol it just so happens both itoigawa.
Beng
Omono
