Japanese maple- overwatering/underwatering question

[Ariandmaple]

Hello! New to bonsai, maples, trees, and plants in general here! I’ve already tried to drown my tree by not taking out the attached saucer dish (didnt know that was a thing!) initially so any advice is welcome!

Tree facts: I’ve had this Japanese Maple (Acer palmatum var. dissectum, ‘Tamukeyama’) for about a month now. I don’t know if it’s grafted. It lives outside for the most part but I’ve been pulling it in when it gets a bit cold (zone 6a). Got it from a nursery where it lived dormant outside. Soil is miracle grow potting soil with a lot of extra perlite added. I repotted it... almost immediately. While it still looked kinda dormant. Untangled some roots (it wasn’t pot bound) and chopped down some of the longer roots. Gave it happy tree fertilizer for maples and followed their instructions-- planning on fertilizing again in a week.

Light... there’s some trees and a balcony fence that create weird lighting availability in the mornings (east facing sun) with no direct light 11-1 and some scarce direct afternoon light later.

Water... I’m very unsure of the best way to go about it. The leaves are very droopy and naturally delicate looking. Other plants leaves will droop when they need water but i can’t tell if that’s the same for this tree. I’ve been trying to use the finger test.... but I’m very unsure. I’ve heard maples want their roots wet. Right now I’m just pouring half a gallon on it whenever the soil seems dryish and hoping for the best. Should I soak it until water leaks out the bottom? Or am I just mother henning it and it’s just fine?

Also there’s this branch that is not artistically pleasing. Its messing up the flow of the other branches and I really want to chop it off. It’s dark red and thick so I think it’s a leader branch. When is the best time to cull it? I’ve heard both summer, when it will heal quickly, or winter, when it’s dormant, are the best options.

This tree has been so neat to work with. There were days when it was changing so quickly red to green. Red to green. Even now the leaves are turning red at the tips. I just don’t want to kill it because of an avoidable problem.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Cool cultivar, Traveller!

Ummm.. the Woody Dwarves gotta touch on a couple things/ask a couple questions...

1st of all... in 6a... when DORMANT.. there’d be almost no reason to ever pull this guy in.. obviously he’s awake.. so NOW, one would need to bring this tree in for ominous frost/freezes..

Was this tree “awake” when you were “futzin’” with roots?

WhenEVER watering.. one should water “through”..at least that is the how we do things here, in the “Tiny Forest”.

The issue is.. this tree got repotted into “potting soil” in a large container..(We can deal with this if we know a little more) potting soil is quite retentive so a container THAT size will hold MUCH, in weight of water... Also, just having been repotted, the tree is not “drinking normally... just the roots, sittin, wet.. which I guarantee it does not care for.

As it stands.. in that pot with that soil...Depending on the currently existing roots (How much rootball did you leave?), water THROUGH and wait until the soil is dry.. water again..

Pick the plant up before/after waterings... it will become apparent when it’s “drinking normally”

All that being said... it needs different soil... not now.. but next repot.

This is a very neat cultivar.. but perhaps a challenging SPECIMEN for bonsai.. I can explain more.. but first you must answer:

What direction would you like to go? What is your “vision” for this tree?

I have no direct experience with this Cultivated Variety.. but someone will.,

You’ve stumbled across a communal wellspring of shared knowledge/experience.. drink deeply when thirsty... offer when able.

Pleasure to make your acquaintance.

 

[Ariandmaple]

Cool cultivar!

Ummm.. gotta touch on a couple things/ask a couple questions...

1st of all... in 6a... when DORMANT.. there’d be almost no reason to ever pull this guy in.. obviously he’s awake.. so NOW, one would need to bring this tree in for ominous frost/freezes..

Was this tree “awake” when you were “futzin’” with roots?

WhenEVER watering.. one should water “through”..

The issue is.. this tree got repotted into “potting soil” in a large container..(We can deal with this if we know a little more) potting soil is quite retentive so a container THAT size will hold MUCH, in weight of water... Also, just having been repotted, the tree is not “drinking normally... just the roots, sittin, wet.. which I guarantee it does not care for.

As it stands.. in that pot with that soil...Depending on the currently existing roots (How much rootball did you leave?), water THROUGH and wait until the soil is dry.. water again..

Pick the plant up before/after waterings... it will become apparent when it’s “drinking normally”

All that being said... it needs different soil... not now.. but next repot.

This is a very neat cultivar.. but perhaps a challenging SPECIMEN for bonsai.. I can explain more.. but first you must answer:

What direction would you like to go? What is your “vision” for this tree?

Thanks for the response! I dont really know how dormant it was actually, I’m not really knowledgeable in tree lingo. All I can say is it had no buds or leaves when I got it. Looked like in the picture with the dog.

I didn’t take off much root. Just forked it a bit so it wasn’t so balled up and then cut off the stranglers that hung down from the ball. They weren’t thick roots. About 2-4 total got trimmed down. (I was watching a lot of Herons Bonsai on YouTube before chopping)

What kind of soil does it need? I dont really know anything about soil mixtures.

Size, I like how it is now. I don’t need a tiny bonsai... but some of the longer branches are already sweeping downward. If I could turn half of it into a semi cascade/cascade style, I think that would be really cool

 

[Ariandmaple]

Thanks for the response! I dont really know how dormant it was actually, I’m not really knowledgeable in tree lingo. All I can say is it had no buds or leaves when I got it. Looked like in the picture with the dog.

I didn’t take off much root. Just forked it a bit so it wasn’t so balled up and then cut off the stranglers that hung down from the ball. They weren’t thick roots. About 2-4 total got trimmed down. (I was watching a lot of Herons Bonsai on YouTube before chopping)

What kind of soil does it need? I dont really know anything about soil mixtures.

Size, I like how it is now. I don’t need a tiny bonsai... but some of the longer branches are already sweeping downward. If I could turn half of it into a semi cascade/cascade style, I think that would be really cool

The tree didnt have any leaves/buds when I repotted/trimmed the roots

 

[Shibui]

'Dissectum' Japanese maples have a weeping habit so branches naturally cascade. Leaves also droop,e specially when they are new. Best way to tell if it is thirsty is check the tender new shoots at the end of branches. They will be distinctly droopy if it is thirsty but it would be best not to get to that stage. Provided your soil is good it can take plenty of watering. Root rot takes a long time to get established and affect a tree. Dehydration can kill a tree in a single day so I always err on the side of more water rather than less. Best way is to check the soil daily by digging down with a finger to check for damp below the surface. If the soil is still damp leave watering until tomorrow or the afternoon. You should gradually get a feel for how the tree responds in that soil in that pot in your weather conditions and you will be able to predict water needs more accurately with less checking.

Dormant means no leaves on deciduous trees so your timing was good for repotting and you were very conservative when root pruning.
The larger, deeper pot you have used gives more latitude for soil type than the very shallow containers we often use. Potting soils are designed for use in pots. Garden soil can be deadly to roots in pots so I hope you have used a premium potting soil from the plant shop for this repot. Any good brand commercial potting soil will do for your first foray into keeping plants in containers but rabid bonsai fanatics all have their own favorite mixture which makes it easier to keep plants healthy in smaller pots.

What kind of soil does it need? I dont really know anything about soil mixtures.

Asking questions like this can ignite all out war on a forum like this as everyone has THE best soil mix and everyone else is COMPLETELY wrong. Just ignore such fanatical raving when you come across it.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Welcome to the site! I think you are about the 4th member here with a merle Aussie

Japanese maples are under-story trees that do well in bright indirect lighting. As long as it is getting some sun in the morning and afternoon it should be fine. If it isn't getting enough sun it will start to thin out, and will extend long lighter colored branches and foliage. As long as your tree looks like a thick mop of weeping leaves, and isn't thinning out, it is a sign that it is getting enough light.

As a weeping cultivar, they are often grafted high, because otherwise the tree grows almost like a ground-hugging ornamental. I have highlighted the graft union for you in this image:



Watch for any branches below this graft, because they will be generic green JM branches, and you will want to remove them if they start popping out. They will have different leaves than the cultivar, and probably be much stronger, so you want to remove them so they don't direct the strength of growth away from the top of the tree (your valuable cultivar branches).

As far as watering goes, you want to water thoroughly until the water runs out the bottom of the pot and the entire soil mass is wet. Then you should wait until the soil is just barely moist before you water again. You do not want the soil to become bone dry, but you don't want it to be a swamp either. An easy measure is feel the weight of the pot, just by tipping it slightly. A wet tree weighs a ton, and a dry tree is significantly lighter. I use this method to determine if one of my trees is not getting enough water, and it is a very good indicator particularly when dealing with large numbers of trees that are all getting the same treatment, and should all be watered equally.

Note that your tree will have very different watering needs over the course of the year. When dormant, your tree will use almost no water, and you might only water the soil once a month and find the soil simply isn't drying out. As soon as the tree starts to leaf out, however, the foliage will start to transpire which in turn will draw water up through the vascular system of the tree. You will find the soil drying out much more quickly, particularly on days of low humidity. Later in the year as growth slows the tree will start to use a little less water. So make sure that you water based on the needs of the tree - and not on a fixed schedule.

Otherwise, this tree would be hard to use as a bonsai due to the high graft and the long thin trunk. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as a cool Japanese maple in a container - I actually have four Crimson Queen cultivars in pots that I use for this purpose. But in term of making it look convincing as an image of an old tree in nature... you would have a lot of work ahead of you. You would probably find it would be easier to just buy a Japanese maple pre-bonsai from a bonsai nursery that has already been grown for a future as bonsai - and which already is on its own roots and has an interesting trunk line and decent starting taper - all of which this current tree lacks.

 

[Ariandmaple]

'Dissectum' Japanese maples have a weeping habit so branches naturally cascade. Leaves also droop,e specially when they are new. Best way to tell if it is thirsty is check the tender new shoots at the end of branches. They will be distinctly droopy if it is thirsty but it would be best not to get to that stage. Provided your soil is good it can take plenty of watering. Root rot takes a long time to get established and affect a tree. Dehydration can kill a tree in a single day so I always err on the side of more water rather than less. Best way is to check the soil daily by digging down with a finger to check for damp below the surface. If the soil is still damp leave watering until tomorrow or the afternoon. You should gradually get a feel for how the tree responds in that soil in that pot in your weather conditions and you will be able to predict water needs more accurately with less checking.

Dormant means no leaves on deciduous trees so your timing was good for repotting and you were very conservative when root pruning.
The larger, deeper pot you have used gives more latitude for soil type than the very shallow containers we often use. Potting soils are designed for use in pots. Garden soil can be deadly to roots in pots so I hope you have used a premium potting soil from the plant shop for this repot. Any good brand commercial potting soil will do for your first foray into keeping plants in containers but rabid bonsai fanatics all have their own favorite mixture which makes it easier to keep plants healthy in smaller pots.

Asking questions like this can ignite all out war on a forum like this as everyone has THE best soil mix and everyone else is COMPLETELY wrong. Just ignore such fanatical raving when you come across it.

Thank you for the advice on the leaves!
if you use a moisture meter, would you normally think about watering when its at the low end of moist then? For reference this meter reads: dry 1-3, moist 4-7, wet 8-10

Haha I won’t ask for any exact ratios then but what are some soil types I should be on the lookout for this type of tree? I’ve heard spaghnum moss and perlite being thrown around. Are there any other soil types I should that would be good for this type? For next year anyways. I’m not concerned with making him small so hopefully that will give me more room for error

 

[Ariandmaple]

Welcome to the site! I think you are about the 4th member here with a merle Aussie

Japanese maples are under-story trees that do well in bright indirect lighting. As long as it is getting some sun in the morning and afternoon it should be fine. If it isn't getting enough sun it will start to thin out, and will extend long lighter colored branches and foliage. As long as your tree looks like a thick mop of weeping leaves, and isn't thinning out, it is a sign that it is getting enough light.

As a weeping cultivar, they are often grafted high, because otherwise the tree grows almost like a ground-hugging ornamental. I have highlighted the graft union for you in this image:

View attachment 369162

Watch for any branches below this graft, because they will be generic green JM branches, and you will want to remove them if they start popping out. They will have different leaves than the cultivar, and probably be much stronger, so you want to remove them so they don't direct the strength of growth away from the top of the tree (your valuable cultivar branches).

As far as watering goes, you want to water thoroughly until the water runs out the bottom of the pot and the entire soil mass is wet. Then you should wait until the soil is just barely moist before you water again. You do not want the soil to become bone dry, but you don't want it to be a swamp either. An easy measure is feel the weight of the pot, just by tipping it slightly. A wet tree weighs a ton, and a dry tree is significantly lighter. I use this method to determine if one of my trees is not getting enough water, and it is a very good indicator particularly when dealing with large numbers of trees that are all getting the same treatment, and should all be watered equally.

Note that your tree will have very different watering needs over the course of the year. When dormant, your tree will use almost no water, and you might only water the soil once a month and find the soil simply isn't drying out. As soon as the tree starts to leaf out, however, the foliage will start to transpire which in turn will draw water up through the vascular system of the tree. You will find the soil drying out much more quickly, particularly on days of low humidity. Later in the year as growth slows the tree will start to use a little less water. So make sure that you water based on the needs of the tree - and not on a fixed schedule.

Otherwise, this tree would be hard to use as a bonsai due to the high graft and the long thin trunk. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as a cool Japanese maple in a container - I actually have four Crimson Queen cultivars in pots that I use for this purpose. But in term of making it look convincing as an image of an old tree in nature... you would have a lot of work ahead of you. You would probably find it would be easier to just buy a Japanese maple pre-bonsai from a bonsai nursery that has already been grown for a future as bonsai - and which already is on its own roots and has an interesting trunk line and decent starting taper - all of which this current tree lacks.

(She’s a good girl. Her name is Pika!)

Thank you for the light and grafting information! The tipping information I have just recently heard of so I will try doing that

Thanks for the grafting information as well! He hasnt shot off anything down below yet, but I’ll keep a look out!

Yeah I... I didn’t even realize there were japanese maples that had lacey leaves, I thought they were all palm shaped. (That was my bad I just asked the girl for a red japanese maple and this one of the smallest types they had) After watching some videos I did realize later on, although very pretty, he does lack interesting root shape or trunk shape, or... anything. But as a complete beginner, I feel true bonsai is a bit out of my league right now. I just want to learn how to keep it healthy right now... and maybe use him to practice wiring

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Yeah I... I didn’t even realize there were japanese maples that had lacey leaves, I thought they were all palm shaped.

They are called "dissectums". If you see the Latin name of a Japanese maple, and it uses the term "var. dissectum" it means that the tree has feathery leaves. For example:

Acer palmatum var. dissectum 'Crimson Queen'

Acer is the genus name for "maples"
Acer Palmatum is the species name for "Japanese maple"
var. dissectum means "variety with deeply cut leaves"
'Crimson Queen' is the cultivar name; in this case a red Japanese maple with deeply cut leaves that naturally grows in a weeping form

 

[Ariandmaple]

Gotcha! All my initial information came from a bonsai book. Good for general information. Not so much tree specifics. i knew the maples wouldnt do well in all day sunlight (which I don’t have) and can tolerate somewhat cold weather (which I do have), but that’s about it

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Hello and welcome! Just a note on your tree, it may have been mislabeled, I don't think Tamukeyama ever have bright green leaves.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

That's a right nice pup!

Sorce

 

[Ariandmaple]

Hello and welcome! Just a note on your tree, it may have been mislabeled, I don't think Tamukeyama ever have bright green leaves.

What do you think it might be? It started out with red and then would go green then red then green again. The leaves are in the process of going red again now.

I don’t mind if it’s mislabeled but knowing the exact cultivar might help me take care of it better

heres an example:

 

[Hack Yeah!]

I'm not sure, maybe someone will chime in. The second pic looks more like viridis

 

[Ariandmaple]

I'm not sure, maybe someone will chime in. The second pic looks more like viridis

Oh geez. I hope not. Still... he’s not really green. He’s been turning red again slowly. Here’s a photo from today

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Yeah, that's funny, please fill in your location profile as this will help people give you better advice, especially for seasonal task