JBP disease

[pwk5017]

This is a new one to me, but it looks like it killing pines at an insane pace. These pines were just fine the other day. I have been spraying everything about once every 3 weeks this season because of some signs of fungal activity this spring--tell tale dots on the needles. The fungus never manifested into full blown needlecast to kill trees, but I have been spraying with bonide copper fungicide as a maintenance. I sprayed last night. Today, it looks like a few of my 2-3 year old seedlings are a day away from being toast. As you can see, the lowest needles are a brown/blue/black color and the needles of the spring growth are black at the base and folded over. Has anyone seen this before? I have just about written these pines off as dead, but I wanna know what Im dealing with so I dont lose a few hundred black pines in development. It did rain today, so is there a chance the bonide was washed off the foliage into the soil? I feel like that is a stretch, but at the same time, its shocking to see these seedlings go from super vigorous growers to dead in about 24 hours.

 

[cmeg1]

Lots of people say that pines do not need repotting every year,but if they get root bound they let you know it in a large way,I have lost all my pine seedlings cause I thought they could go 2 years repotting,I pulled the 2 year seedlings out of the pots and the roots were 3' long and the tree was dehydrated.

 

[october]

This is a new one to me, but it looks like it killing pines at an insane pace. These pines were just fine the other day. I have been spraying everything about once every 3 weeks this season because of some signs of fungal activity this spring--tell tale dots on the needles. The fungus never manifested into full blown needlecast to kill trees, but I have been spraying with bonide copper fungicide as a maintenance. I sprayed last night. Today, it looks like a few of my 2-3 year old seedlings are a day away from being toast. As you can see, the lowest needles are a brown/blue/black color and the needles of the spring growth are black at the base and folded over. Has anyone seen this before? I have just about written these pines off as dead, but I wanna know what Im dealing with so I dont lose a few hundred black pines in development. It did rain today, so is there a chance the bonide was washed off the foliage into the soil? I feel like that is a stretch, but at the same time, its shocking to see these seedlings go from super vigorous growers to dead in about 24 hours. View attachment 38640View attachment 38641View attachment 38642View attachment 38643

Fungus does work fast. However, did you protect the soil when you sprayed or if rain washed it off right after you sprayed it? I do see some needle cast on there. However, you should always protect the soil from any kind of liquid copper. It is not good for roots.

Rob

 

[pwk5017]

Yes, but my protection would have been negligible if the rain washed the foliage clean and into the soil. These seedlings were repotted this year, and have been growing very well so far. This has been a tough year for me in terms of fungus. I cannot get away from the crap. My seedlings were damping off left and right after germinating, and now I have this issue. First year with any sort of pest and it sucks.

So have you known an illness to start at the base of the needle and kill it that way? Needlecast typically forms bands closer to the needle tips. In some of the marco shots, you can see the base of the needle is black and shriveled, while the rest of the needle looks green and great.

 

[october]

Yes, but my protection would have been negligible if the rain washed the foliage clean and into the soil. These seedlings were repotted this year, and have been growing very well so far. This has been a tough year for me in terms of fungus. I cannot get away from the crap. My seedlings were damping off left and right after germinating, and now I have this issue. First year with any sort of pest and it sucks.

So have you known an illness to start at the base of the needle and kill it that way? Needlecast typically forms bands closer to the needle tips. In some of the marco shots, you can see the base of the needle is black and shriveled, while the rest of the needle looks green and great.

I would imagine this could also be from the seedlings getting way too much water over a long period of time. However, I do not think that is it. I do not know first hand the affects of liquid copper getting into a tree's root system. However, many sources warn to not get any kind of copper in liquid form into the soil. I do believe that this could be a copper related affect.

I heard a story of a collection of incredible specimen trees that were lost due to copper duct work. They suspect that rain run off from some new copper duct work was washing over the trees and ended up killing them. So, in reality, I guess, in your case, it could be copper related.

I feel your pain. Fungus moved into my collection a couple years ago. It comes in fast and sticks around for a while. I have heard of it working so fast that it can wipe out collections of maples and pines within a few weeks.

Rob

 

[Beng]

Is there a possibility that it wasn't bonide you sprayed and perhaps it got mixed up with some kind of weed killer. Never seen a pine do anything like this, the needles look nice and healthy otherwise... The needles in the second picture look bad all over though.

 

[pwk5017]

I dont think so? I sprayed all my pines and only 5-6 are showing these signs(I have about 135 potted in pond baskets). The gallon sprayer was brand new. I did rinse it out a bit before using it, so I hope it wasnt used with weed killer, since it was sold as brand new! I moved all those affected off the benches and out into the yard a ways away. Hopefully try to quarantine this situation. Maybe they will survive this, maybe not. I am more concerned about my older and more developed pines contracting this mystery condition. That would potentially drive me away from bonsai if I lost the majority of my pines ive been working on for 5+ years.

 

[october]

I dont think so? I sprayed all my pines and only 5-6 are showing these signs(I have about 135 potted in pond baskets). The gallon sprayer was brand new. I did rinse it out a bit before using it, so I hope it wasnt used with weed killer, since it was sold as brand new! I moved all those affected off the benches and out into the yard a ways away. Hopefully try to quarantine this situation. Maybe they will survive this, maybe not. I am more concerned about my older and more developed pines contracting this mystery condition. That would potentially drive me away from bonsai if I lost the majority of my pines ive been working on for 5+ years.

Funny you should say this because I thought I was being paranoid when I buy new sprayers. I smell the inside and rinse it out very well before I use new sprayers. I don't think it happens, but I do not want to take the chance of them using the bottle for something damaging, then putting it on the shelf as new.

There is not chance that vinegar was anywhere near these is there. It is an herbicide.

Rob

 

[Beng]

In the off chance it was used before there could have been some in the sprayer part which could be why it only affected a few trees. Pine oystershell scale hides under the sheaths of new needles. I've dealt with it before though and the bases of the needles yellow slowly over a period of months, it doesn't look much like this... Seems like it's coming from the roots since it's dying from the base of the needle.

 

[Dav4]

Just spitballing here...the damage on this year's needles reminds me of "damping off" damage you might see on seedlings that are kept too wet.

I'm guessing you've been fertilizing the heck out of these trees, and I'm thinking a relative "excess" in nitrogen coupled with all the rain this year could predispose them to opportunistic fungal disease and damage. If only a few trees have been affected, I'd try to isolate them from your other stock, and obviously, I'd back off on the ferts. By the way, what is the darker colored granules you've got spread on the surface of the pond baskets?

 

[pwk5017]

Yes, I agree with everyone so far about the roots possibly being damaged(needle damage at the base, not the tip, as well as needles dying closer to the soil before the tips). Yes, the dark granules are 10-10-10 I put on late last week. This is a new fertilizer I picked up at lowes, because I needed to do another 30+ trees, and ran out of my normal Lesco fertilizer. I was always under the impression that you almost couldnt overfertilize pines in inorganic mixes and pond baskets/colanders. This year I have just been sticking with a slow release granule. Last year it was osmocote and miracle grow at 2-4x the recommended dose. I thought last year was close to "over-fertilizing", but Dave's comment certainly has me thinking. Should I scrape some fert off every tree now? It has been VERY wet here this season, and now im dealing with jungle-like humidity.

 

[Dav4]

Should I scrape some fert off every tree now? It has been VERY wet here this season, and now im dealing with jungle-like humidity.

I would, at least with the affected ones....maybe removing 50% of what is on the rest of you trees...it can't hurt and might help.

 

[pwk5017]

Yeah, I have to start reducing the variables here. Already I have the potential for it being caused by fungus, too much fertilizer, new sprayer having been previously used, possibility of bonide washing into the soil, and too much rain falling the last few weeks. Im thinking its a combo of things at play here. They were repotted and wired this spring. That is some stress to the tree. Combine that with the weird weather and it opens the door for disease. Then, potentially combine that with too much fertilizer, maybe bonide in the soil, and its no wonder i have a catastrophe on my hands. I just hope its these few, and it doesnt spread and I will have learned a lesson about weather, spraying, fertilizing, and being unlucky.

The fungus this year has been maddening. Only affecting my JBP though(fortunately or unfortunately).

 

[pwk5017]

I spent a little more time trying to figure out a common denominator for this issue, and I am thinking it has to do with the fertilizer from lowes. All those affected had this new fertilizer on them, while neighboring pines had the lesco fertilizer I typically use on them. The lesco pines are unaffected so far. I scraped the lowes fertilizer off and rinsed the pond baskets for a bit to try and flush the stuff out. We will see if it was enough. To throw another twist into this situation, I noticed road crews cleared a 3' swath of my hedge that separates my bonsai benches from the road. These affected pines just happen to be on the bench closest to the road, right up against the hedge. I am wondering if the crew sprayed during their clearing? Either way, the situation has to be chemical in nature. Im sure a fungus can destroy a pine that fast(less than 24 hours), but to only selectively target the several on that particular bench nearest the road, with the lowes fertilizer on them--I find it odd to say the least.

 

[Bradeen]

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