Kiwi's Blue Spruce

[sorce]

The "correct" answer for whether to trim the top back to "balance" the top to the remaining roots has not been worked out definitely

Thought blast.

I successfully repotted mine in Summer, later Summer, without cutting the top back at all.
Of course those are summer needles. Less transpiration.

Those who repot in spring have a few weeks of new emerging needles to battle against. Sounds foolish to say it makes sense that that situation may call for a cutback for balance...sounds more like a triple whammy of death.

Better to repot when spruce is doing nothing BUT growing roots.

Unless you are battling against new growth because you tried to force a later second or third flush of growth with pruning too late.
Which is also stupid old teaching, even older than the future, because small buds alone seem to produce a naturally smaller foliage and we can get to those with one properly timed pruning every spring.

The "Spruce for Real" thread is coming.

I think the faster we let any and all outside information stop determining what we do to our trees, and rather let our garden speak to us...

The faster we will have insanely better trees.

Sorce

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Update ( all survived the summer)

Hi all,
Winter here so in my zone pruning in the winter is safe as no hard freezes.
I am pleased to announce that all 4 Blue Spruces survived in their boxes and 3 out of 4 hAve done well. The last is alive and I am hoping it will send out new growth this coming Spring.
The 2 I am showing for comments and design ideas (help) are : firstly I cut this one back quite hard as I am not too worried if it lives or is slowed down heaps. Just I want to know how much pruning it might be able to handle.


Secondly I am quite proud of my first styling and pruning of this one below, only pruned lightly. So I have only roughly designed this with a couple of wires. I am showing you 2 angles, one from the front and second from the back, although I am wondering with some wiring the back COULD be the best front.

Fading light after work, and I am happy to take better photos in the sunshine.
Thank you to those who comment and I am looking forward to the help they provide.
Charles

 

[my nellie]

Hello Charles!

Update ( all survived the summer)
... ...Secondly I am quite proud of my first styling and pruning of this one below, only pruned lightly. So I have only roughly designed this with a couple of wires... ...

I'm happy for your success.
For a light pruning and first styling, I think the result is good.
But the wiring needs improvement, if I may say With one piece of wire I would have wired those two branches and moved the straight one downwards making it more level like its partner
Please, take the time to watch Colin Lewis video on wiring (it's free). You will get a better idea.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hello Charles!I'm happy for your success.
For a light pruning and first styling, I think the result is good.
But the wiring needs improvement, if I may say With one piece of wire I would have wired those two branches and moved the straight one downwards making it more level like its partner
Please, take the time to watch Colin Lewis video on wiring (it's free). You will get a better idea.

Hi Alexandra,
Thank you for your comments. Yes, totally agree my wiring needs practice and improvements. I have registered my email re Craftsy - Just have to go and watch etc.
I think what I forgot to do which looks kind of dumb/weird is only partly wiring then posting, rather than fully wiring. Still got a month or so to get it finished before Spring rolls around.
Charles

 

[my nellie]

... ...I think what I forgot to do which looks kind of dumb/weird is only partly wiring then posting, rather than fully wiring. Still got a month or so to get it finished before Spring rolls around.
Charles

Charles, may I remind that when manipulating the branch after wiring, there is a resulting damage to the cambium layer which is bearable/acceptable but be careful that he branch should be bent once into its final position so as not to harm severely the cambium layer under the bark.
So even if your current wiring is not as neat as it should be, it is better not to try to correct it because the damage will be greater than the benefit. To my opinion.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

At workshop

About a month ago late winter

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi all,
I have been having troubles loading images and text for some reason.
So the first photo is from a workshop in the last Autumn, finding better front with an Aussie pro. The second photo is my finishing the FIRST styling of this spruce. I saw a post here about using cable ties as a form of tie-down etc. As I don’t have a supply of copper wire here, I thought this would be the next best thing - might take 1-3 years.
There is a couple of issues with the tree with the reverse taper above the graft and and the branch placement of the right mid section. Also I did a slight repot of this just to place the front on this side of my rectangular box. Bummer, as I didn’t quite get the front correct as it needs an anti-clockwise tweak by a few degrees.
I have been watching this grow mainly as I have not wanted to prune too hard for fear it will stall its growth for a while.
I am looking for advice on pruning and general ways forward and welcome all opinions as nearly 3 years in now and 2 years on this site my skin is getting thicker .
Charles

 

[SpOoNzL]

Hi There, this is what id do if it were my tree. Hope it makes sense.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi There, this is what id do if it were my tree. Hope it makes sense.

Hi,
Wow, thank you for your design ideas. Definitely something to think seriously about. I hadn’t thought about a lower chop, and now makes so much sense .
Charles

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hi,
Wow, thank you for your design ideas. Definitely something to think seriously about. I hadn’t thought about a lower chop, and now makes so much sense .
Charles

(Wondering who taught workshop?) Big blaring UGH! Bottom branches appear as 3 in one whorl. Normally not good/stylistically aesthetically unattractive. One big one should be gone at least. "Possibly" could use smaller back one as first back branch if bent down or up to appear as at a different level.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

(Wondering who taught workshop?) Big blaring UGH! Bottom branches appear as 3 in one whorl. Normally not good/stylistically aesthetically unattractive. One big one should be gone at least. "Possibly" could use smaller back one as first back branch if bent down or up to appear as at a different level.

Hi,
You could be correct here.
Hey, I could cut off all the branches and try and grow a dead tree, or just work with what I got, which was ground grown with no pruning for 7 odd years then I attempt to make a bonsai.
Charles

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hi,
You could be correct here.
Hey, I could cut off all the branches and try and grow a dead tree, or just work with what I got, which was ground grown with no pruning for 7 odd years then I attempt to make a bonsai.
Charles

Not such a hot idea. Better ideas still exist even without "bad" branch or 2. Tree will grow others soon enough.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Not such a hot idea. Better ideas still exist even without "bad" branch or 2. Tree will grow others soon enough.

Ok then, if I was to keep the bottom LEFT, cut out both the back and right branch from the whorl, and build the tree from there. I think that could work??
Charles

 

[SpOoNzL]

Ok then, if I was to keep the bottom LEFT, cut out both the back and right branch from the whorl, and build the tree from there. I think that could work??
Charles

That is probley the best thing to do not much foliage on the bottom right big branch anyway and doesn't do much for the tree. Although the tree needs reducing in height as well id probley deal with just removing those lower branches you mentioned first. maybe see how the tree responds then next year deal with the height of the tree? before you cut them off completely leave extra for a jin, it might still look bad as it will create a T but you can always remove more if the jins looks silly.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Perhaps would be best to keep back branch for now as there is much space before another exists. Agree rt side branch is most expendable but would get rid of whole branch now as a Jin would still be a bar. Can get healed up sooner this way. Humble little tree today can be masterpiece one day.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

That is probley the best thing to do not much foliage on the bottom right big branch anyway and doesn't do much for the tree. Although the tree needs reducing in height as well id probley deal with just removing those lower branches you mentioned first. maybe see how the tree responds then next year deal with the height of the tree? before you cut them off completely leave extra for a jin, it might still look bad as it will create a T but you can always remove more if the jins looks silly.

Hi,
Thank you for your comments, and yes agree the T branch as a jin would look silly.
I am still a bit confused as to why this needs reducing in height as the first now (after lower gets the chop) right branch would be almost where the new leader starts out.
I will post again after the T branch has gone and we will try again.
Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Perhaps would be best to keep back branch for now as there is much space before another exists. Agree rt side branch is most expendable but would get rid of whole branch now as a Jin would still be a bar. Can get healed up sooner this way. Humble little tree today can be masterpiece one day.

Hi,
Thank you for positivity, and the humble tree will hopefully get a little better each year.
Charles

 

[BubblePopScott]

So what happened to the other 3 trees? Did bare rooting the tree work?

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

So what happened to the other 3 trees? Did bare rooting the tree work?

Hi,
Yep the bare rooting did work, although they have taken a while to get going. Like this Spring the new growth is great.

So, when these were all dug at least 2 of them are no good for a future bonsai. One got chopped at ground level(dead) as no future. Other one has a crap nebari, with graft not so good either. Left with 2 that might have a chance.
Charles

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@KiwiPlantGuy this proposal isn't too bad, EXCEPT, where suggested to prune back to orange line - do it AFTER back budding forms. If you try to prune to force back budding, you will delay back budding. Let the branches extend, they will form back buds naturally, THEN AFTER the back buds form, prune back to the orange line.

Hi There, this is what id do if it were my tree. Hope it makes sense.

Lowering the apex makes the tree look older, the trunk look larger in diameter, and helps with creating taper. I have a blue spruce from overgrown, pot bound nursery material. Take your time with it, I did major root work to get it into a Anderson flat. It has taken 3 years to recover vigor after that much root work. So give yours time. You want shining blue new buds everywhere before your next round of pruning.