Large Azalea Collecting. Seeking Advice.

[farallon5]

Hello everyone,

Seeking advice on the best time of year and and any general best practices when collecting Azalea Yamadori. The research I have done online is giving me mixed singals on the best time to transplant or collect Azaleas and figured it would be in my best interest to consult with experts before I make any moves that may inadvertantly damage the plants. All three of these Azaleas are on my fathers property that he is looking to remove for some future landscaping projects where these will get in the way. They have beautiful nebari and I see great bonsai potential. Here is the data I have at this time:

- Evergreen Azaleas (I am basing this off the PictureThis app I downloaded on my phone, unsure of species)
- Grow Zone 7b Wake County North Carolina
- Trunk thickness I estimate is between 3 to 5 inch diameter from the smallest to the largest of the three Azaleas
- They all appear to be healthy. I have seen white flowers on one of them, unsure of the color of the other two. No visible pests or damage to the leafs
- The roots for two of the three are above the surface and close to larger trees. The largest of the three is begining to be overcome by the branches of a large cypress it is planted near.

What are the best methods to properly collect and place in pots? I have read that fall works, I have read that spring works as well. I was planning to plant them all in large trays with a mixture of Kanuma and sphagnum but have also read that you can replant in a mixture of pine bark and sand.

Long story short, what are my best options here? Really looking to consult with experts who have experience doing this as I do not want to risk damanging these beautiful trees.

Thanks for your time and help

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice azaleas!

Ok, I’ll never even come close to being an expert, but I have moved an awful lot of landscape azaleas and rhodies around from hither to yon.

If it were me, in the Pacific NW region, I would feel totally fine moving an evergreen azalea (haven’t moved but one deciduous azalea) once the rainy season really kicks in. In this area that would be late September to early October. That’s my favorite time. The other time I move azaleas is in late winter to early spring when the frequent frost is past. I’ve seen folks move them successfully during the dead of winter, but our ground doesn’t freeze often hereabouts.

As far as potting at the same time, I wouldn’t do that myself. They are so big and nice that I’d big box each of them up like you said with pine bark and some sand myself and some of their soil for a year or so. But that may not work for you.

Both digging and Potting could also be done in the spring once the soil is completely unfrozen. There are a couple folks that might really help you more on this end. Let’s see if @River's Edge or @Mellow Mullet will pick up on this thread. If they don’t, you can PM them and ask. (Use the envelope icon on top to do this)

Good luck and let us see photos of your progress!
Cheers
DSD sends
PS Here’s an ARS article on transplanting that will help you get started.

 

[Shibui]

Over here I have transplanted evergreen (indica) azaleas every month of the year and have similar success. That's probably why you are getting conflicting advice - there is no best time, azalea are always ready for transplant. Note we do not have cold winters here. In colder zones it would probably be prudent to transplant from spring through to fall.
The azaleas I move have all had massive top and root reduction at the same time and do not seem to suffer for it. Multi trunk bushes where trunks come from the ground can often be chopped into segments so if the trunk lines are conflicting consider dividing the clump while you are root pruning and chopping the tops.
Azaleas sprout all over remaining stumps so can be pruned back ruthlessly. Long, straggly trunks are little use for bonsai so chop fearlessly if necessary.

All my azaleas go straight into the same standard mix I use for all potted plants- composted pine bark/sand mix with added nutrients. Water quality and conditions after collection seem to be far more of a factor than soil mix.

The azaleas look like good subjects. Hope you have success with them.

 

[sorce]

Forgot your Welcome to Crazy!

It seems everyone else forgot that thread existed at all!

How's that Mugo?

Sorce

 

[farallon5]

Forgot your Welcome to Crazy!

It seems everyone else forgot that thread existed at all!

How's that Mugo?

Sorce

Thank you for the warm welcome! The Mugo is actually doing great! Did some simple wiring and leaving it to recover. I am excited to see where it goes.

 

[farallon5]

Over here I have transplanted evergreen (indica) azaleas every month of the year and have similar success. That's probably why you are getting conflicting advice - there is no best time, azalea are always ready for transplant. Note we do not have cold winters here. In colder zones it would probably be prudent to transplant from spring through to fall.
The azaleas I move have all had massive top and root reduction at the same time and do not seem to suffer for it. Multi trunk bushes where trunks come from the ground can often be chopped into segments so if the trunk lines are conflicting consider dividing the clump while you are root pruning and chopping the tops.
Azaleas sprout all over remaining stumps so can be pruned back ruthlessly. Long, straggly trunks are little use for bonsai so chop fearlessly if necessary.

All my azaleas go straight into the same standard mix I use for all potted plants- composted pine bark/sand mix with added nutrients. Water quality and conditions after collection seem to be far more of a factor than soil mix.

The azaleas look like good subjects. Hope you have success with them.

This makes sense. I had a feeling the conflicting advice was primarily due to geography and various success rates. Its actually good to hear you can divide the root when chopping. I was wondering if this would be possible for the multitrunk subject I posted. Was considering dividing this to potentially get two trees from it and may try this as an experiment. I may try moving one in the fall and another in early spring just to see if there is any noticeable difference. Thank you for the advice!

 

[farallon5]

Nice azaleas!

Ok, I’ll never even come close to being an expert, but I have moved an awful lot of landscape azaleas and rhodies around from hither to yon.

If it were me, in the Pacific NW region, I would feel totally fine moving an evergreen azalea (haven’t moved but one deciduous azalea) once the rainy season really kicks in. In this area that would be late September to early October. That’s my favorite time. The other time I move azaleas is in late winter to early spring when the frequent frost is past. I’ve seen folks move them successfully during the dead of winter, but our ground doesn’t freeze often hereabouts.

As far as potting at the same time, I wouldn’t do that myself. They are so big and nice that I’d big box each of them up like you said with pine bark and some sand myself and some of their soil for a year or so. But that may not work for you.

Both digging and Potting could also be done in the spring once the soil is completely unfrozen. There are a couple folks that might really help you more on this end. Let’s see if @River's Edge or @Mellow Mullet will pick up on this thread. If they don’t, you can PM them and ask. (Use the envelope icon on top to do this)

Good luck and let us see photos of your progress!
Cheers
DSD sends
PS Here’s an ARS article on transplanting that will help you get started.

Thank you! I will reach out to these other users for additional advice. I am hoping to get some solid results from these. They really are quite stunning and I see a lot of potential. All the best!

 

[River's Edge]

Hello everyone,

Seeking advice on the best time of year and and any general best practices when collecting Azalea Yamadori. The research I have done online is giving me mixed singals on the best time to transplant or collect Azaleas and figured it would be in my best interest to consult with experts before I make any moves that may inadvertantly damage the plants. All three of these Azaleas are on my fathers property that he is looking to remove for some future landscaping projects where these will get in the way. They have beautiful nebari and I see great bonsai potential. Here is the data I have at this time:

- Evergreen Azaleas (I am basing this off the PictureThis app I downloaded on my phone, unsure of species)
- Grow Zone 7b Wake County North Carolina
- Trunk thickness I estimate is between 3 to 5 inch diameter from the smallest to the largest of the three Azaleas
- They all appear to be healthy. I have seen white flowers on one of them, unsure of the color of the other two. No visible pests or damage to the leafs
- The roots for two of the three are above the surface and close to larger trees. The largest of the three is begining to be overcome by the branches of a large cypress it is planted near.

What are the best methods to properly collect and place in pots? I have read that fall works, I have read that spring works as well. I was planning to plant them all in large trays with a mixture of Kanuma and sphagnum but have also read that you can replant in a mixture of pine bark and sand.

Long story short, what are my best options here? Really looking to consult with experts who have experience doing this as I do not want to risk damanging these beautiful trees.

Thanks for your time and help

Interesting trees, worth taking the time to do it right!
First a couple of basics!
You must choose the method that works for your climate and soil conditions. Advice given for other conditions can only create problems!
Methods described in most development texts apply to field grown azalea that had previous root work done before planting in the ground. This is not your situation.
I would recommend treating the trees as Yamadori and adapting the process for your specifics!
#1 Choose the best time. Late Winter/Early Spring The ground is thawed and the buds are not extending yet.
#2 Be prepared to protect for heavy frost if that occurs in your area.
#3 Take the time now to provide some fertilizer to the trees going in to the fall!

For removing the tree's use the trench method. dig a circle trench around the root ball. Begin at a distance equivalent to the drip line. At a minimum 18 inches out from the trunk if possible. So we are talking a 3 foot root ball. ( unless the trees are smaller and the drip line is closer in than that. The trench should be about 12 inches deep and wide enough to allow one to cut under the root ball flat across the bottom. Cut off cleanly large roots as encountered when digging the trench.
Depending on the native soil the next step varies. If the soil is sandy slide a plastic sheet or extra large garbage bag under and enclose the root ball. Securing tightly ( electricians tape wrapped around and around works well as it is stretchy and holds tight) to hold the soil and roots together tightly! If the soil is more compacted, clay like, than a burlap sack wrapped around the root ball will do fine.

Build a grow box for each tree to size, less than 1 inch clearance around root ball but sufficient depth to add some soil to protect roots. The soil mix added to the grow box should be free draining and medium particle size. ( I prefer pumice but any free draining mix will work)

If the root ball is heavy clay, I would tease out carefully the outside edges and bottom of the root ball before planting in the grow box.

Allow the tree's at least one year for recovery. then begin the process of adapting the root ball to suit a bonsai pot.
Stage your repots to accomplish a complete change of native soil over time. As a rough guideline I would suggest 1/3 each year for 3 years. I also suggest studying the situation carefully and dealing with the weakest areas first. With Azalea it is important to remove all native soil, washing roots and retaining only the fine feeder roots over time. Cut back of strong roots should be staged to ensure best results.
The process will involve a series of containers/pots downsizing as the development of the root system allows. Think marathon not sprint!
There is an inexpensive book available for Azalea that detail many valuable techniques for development once you are past this stage.
Japanese Satsuki Azalea 2004 Shogo Watanabe ( English version )
If you have any questions about the above pm me and I will try to assist. I may not have been very clear or detailed enough in my explanations.
Good Luck

 

[farallon5]

Interesting trees, worth taking the time to do it right!
First a couple of basics!
You must choose the method that works for your climate and soil conditions. Advice given for other conditions can only create problems!
Methods described in most development texts apply to field grown azalea that had previous root work done before planting in the ground. This is not your situation.
I would recommend treating the trees as Yamadori and adapting the process for your specifics!
#1 Choose the best time. Late Winter/Early Spring The ground is thawed and the buds are not extending yet.
#2 Be prepared to protect for heavy frost if that occurs in your area.
#3 Take the time now to provide some fertilizer to the trees going in to the fall!

For removing the tree's use the trench method. dig a circle trench around the root ball. Begin at a distance equivalent to the drip line. At a minimum 18 inches out from the trunk if possible. So we are talking a 3 foot root ball. ( unless the trees are smaller and the drip line is closer in than that. The trench should be about 12 inches deep and wide enough to allow one to cut under the root ball flat across the bottom. Cut off cleanly large roots as encountered when digging the trench.
Depending on the native soil the next step varies. If the soil is sandy slide a plastic sheet or extra large garbage bag under and enclose the root ball. Securing tightly ( electricians tape wrapped around and around works well as it is stretchy and holds tight) to hold the soil and roots together tightly! If the soil is more compacted, clay like, than a burlap sack wrapped around the root ball will do fine.

Build a grow box for each tree to size, less than 1 inch clearance around root ball but sufficient depth to add some soil to protect roots. The soil mix added to the grow box should be free draining and medium particle size. ( I prefer pumice but any free draining mix will work)

If the root ball is heavy clay, I would tease out carefully the outside edges and bottom of the root ball before planting in the grow box.

Allow the tree's at least one year for recovery. then begin the process of adapting the root ball to suit a bonsai pot.
Stage your repots to accomplish a complete change of native soil over time. As a rough guideline I would suggest 1/3 each year for 3 years. I also suggest studying the situation carefully and dealing with the weakest areas first. With Azalea it is important to remove all native soil, washing roots and retaining only the fine feeder roots over time. Cut back of strong roots should be staged to ensure best results.
The process will involve a series of containers/pots downsizing as the development of the root system allows. Think marathon not sprint!
There is an inexpensive book available for Azalea that detail many valuable techniques for development once you are past this stage.
Japanese Satsuki Azalea 2004 Shogo Watanabe ( English version )
If you have any questions about the above pm me and I will try to assist. I may not have been very clear or detailed enough in my explanations.
Good Luck

This is fantastic advice thank you very much. I do have a couple follow up questions:

1. You mentioned fertilizing them now in preparation for the fall. Do you have any recommendations on the best type of fertilizer?
2. For the trench method I am wanting to sure I understand correctly. I dig around the tree, cut underneath and wrap in a sheet or garbage bag. Am I then immediately moving this into the built grow box? Or am I letting the tree stay in the ground wrapped in the bag?
3. For the grow box is it recommended that I drill holes in the bottom for drainage?

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[CWTurner]

would recommend treating the trees as Yamadori and adapting the process for your specifics!

Or simply wrap a chain around them and pull them out with a backhoe in the middle of the summer
Just kidding, however I have 5 or 6 that were collected this way from a local cemetery crew.
Just shows how resilient they are.
CW

 

[farallon5]

Or simply wrap a chain around them and pull them out with a backhoe in the middle of the summer
Just kidding, however I have 5 or 6 that were collected this way from a local cemetery crew.
Just shows how resilient they are.
CW

Ha! Thats impressive. Clearly quite resilient little plants then. I think i'll still opt to take an extra level of care though lol. Thanks!

 

[River's Edge]

This is fantastic advice thank you very much. I do have a couple follow up questions:

1. You mentioned fertilizing them now in preparation for the fall. Do you have any recommendations on the best type of fertilizer?
2. For the trench method I am wanting to sure I understand correctly. I dig around the tree, cut underneath and wrap in a sheet or garbage bag. Am I then immediately moving this into the built grow box? Or am I letting the tree stay in the ground wrapped in the bag?
3. For the grow box is it recommended that I drill holes in the bottom for drainage?

Thank you so much for your help!

1. for fertilizer, no special recommendation, suggest lighter dose of liquid this time of year, lower numbers all below 10 for NPK.
2. move into the grow box right away and secure root ball in the grow box!
3. Yes, all containers for healthy bonsai require adequate drainage regardless of stage. ( obviously not so much for swamp trees)
And put screening on the drainage holes. easily stapled in place in wooden grow boxes.

Here is one sample of grow box design that I prefer!
Note: side handles, feet for air circulation and adequate drainage as well as holes for wire tie downs. Just adapt for your measurements!
This one is approx 13 inch square inside and 6 inches deep.

 

[farallon5]

1. for fertilizer, no special recommendation, suggest lighter dose of liquid this time of year, lower numbers all below 10 for NPK.
2. move into the grow box right away and secure root ball in the grow box!
3. Yes, all containers for healthy bonsai require adequate drainage regardless of stage. ( obviously not so much for swamp trees)
And put screening on the drainage holes. easily stapled in place in wooden grow boxes.

Excellent! Thank you so much for your help!

 

[River's Edge]

Excellent! Thank you so much for your help!

Your welcome just added a grow box sample for reference! Use solid wood if available rather than plywood, will last longer.

 

[farallon5]

Your welcome just added a grow box sample for reference! Use solid wood if available rather than plywood, will last longer.

Perfect! I have one last question for you if you dont mind. Would polyethylene tub serve a good enough equivalent? I found these online and thought it may serve this purpose well as long as the tree can fit:

Choice 20" x 15" x 5" Black Polypropylene Plastic Bus Tub, Bus Box

Perfect for the everyday operations of any restaurant, this Choice black polypropylene plastic bus tub is an effective and efficient way to transport goods from the table back to the kitchen. This versatile black bus tub measures 20" x 15" x 5" and boasts durable plastic construction built to...

www.webstaurantstore.com

 

[River's Edge]

Perfect! I have one last question for you if you dont mind. Would polyethylene tub serve a good enough equivalent? I found these online and thought it may serve this purpose well as long as the tree can fit:

Choice 20" x 15" x 5" Black Polypropylene Plastic Bus Tub, Bus Box

Perfect for the everyday operations of any restaurant, this Choice black polypropylene plastic bus tub is an effective and efficient way to transport goods from the table back to the kitchen. This versatile black bus tub measures 20" x 15" x 5" and boasts durable plastic construction built to...

www.webstaurantstore.com

Only you can answer that question after the trees are excavated and you are aware of the dimensions. What if the root ball needs to remain deeper for the first few years in order for it to create new feeder roots and allow for more serious cut back of thicker roots.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep. Maybe more like this, assuming that’s the size you need... or the 7” deep
cheers
DSD sends

 

[farallon5]

Only you can answer that question after the trees are excavated and you are aware of the dimensions. What if the root ball needs to remain deeper for the first few years in order for it to create new feeder roots and allow for more serious cut back of thicker roots.

Understood. I should have rephrased my question as I was more curious if its ok to use a plastic material like this for planting in. I dont see any reason why not as long as like you said the plant can fit. Thanks again!

 

[farallon5]

Yep. Maybe more like this, assuming that’s the size you need... or the 7” deep
cheers
DSD sends

Nice find! Thank you!

 

[River's Edge]

Understood. I should have rephrased my question as I was more curious if its ok to use a plastic material like this for planting in. I dont see any reason why not as long as like you said the plant can fit. Thanks again!

Absolutely one of my favourite containers for newly collected trees is the Anderson flat, deep propagation version. roughly 15 by 15 by 7 inches with a mesh bottom.
for drainage one can nest this type of flat or place on a porous surface. here is a Shimpaku dug and placed in the deep propagation Anderson flat.