Las Vegas...

[Vance Wood]

Let's put it this way because there are those out there that would do this if they had the chance: Suspend or do away with the Constitution, go to the United Nations and request massive forces from outside America to help gather up all personally owned weapons even from the police.

Declare martial law where anyone not obeying to the weapons grab would be shot on the spot for being in violation to an emergency action by the government. Disallow all gatherings disallow any unauthorized travel, disallow the INTERNET, TV, radio, and execute people like Rush Limbaugh, and any gun favoring conservative you can identify, find or flush out of their little toilets wherever they can be found.

Close all of the Christian Churches and gathering places and make illegal any kind of prayer to the Christian God. Make all children wards of the State and make certain they are educated according to this new Socialist agenda. In twenty years all gun violence will be gone except that which is committed by the government. What you can do when we get to this point is a question I hope I am not faced with but there you have it. Before you wish for something you better understand what it will take, mean or cause to happen to bring it about. There is no such thing as a benign dictatorship, and no group of people can feel more betrayed than those who have betrayed themselves and willingly given up their freedom for bondage.

 

[watchndsky]

O.J. is out, the apocalypse is nigh!!!!


Do not let him listen to the "White Album"........

Wish I had the answer, but humans are fragile of mind and can cease to see clearly amid despair. Tons of money or not, you can still become a prisoner of your own mind.

in related news.....

2020 Ford Bronco Is Confirmed
42Save

In 1996, The Craft was hot at the box office, The Incredible Hulk was an animated TV show, Slash officially left Guns N’ Roses, and the final model of the iconic Ford Bronco rolled off the assembly line.

Fast forward to 2016. A sequel to The Craft is on the way, the Hulk has become a staple of the hugely-successful Avengers movies, the reunited Guns N’ Roses has earned well over $100 million dollars and counting on their new concert tour – and it’s now been confirmed that the long-rumored 2020 Ford Bronco is a “go.”

 

[ianb]

bullshit - there HAVE been studies - by the cdc AND the fbi. there IS data there - i have personally queried it.

but if you think can get consensus and acceptance on ANY study as controversial as gun control- let me remind you of a little thing called climate change that is the source of how many arguments nationwide?

Do you have any links you can share then?

In scientific circles there is wide consensus and acceptance on climate change, it's only when you bring in politics and money that there seems to be a disconnect.

 

[watchndsky]

Do you have any links you can share then?

In scientific circles there is wide consensus and acceptance on climate change, it's only when you bring in politics and money that there seems to be a disconnect.

which is exactly why any study would be a waste of time and tax dollars. either side getting results other than what they wanted would contest the validity. and in honesty - they should. there are so many contexts and variables that no one could agree on the paramaters.

you CAN find data using google. i know its fashionable for people to use the "but we cant get an official govt funded study" but there is info publicly available (or was when i last checked) on demographics, caliber, one stop shots, assault weapon ban rates, education etc. -on their own sites

what you wont find is an answer to the question - is more gun control the answer.

and bottom line - what if all the studies DID show that gun control would create a utopia of peace and love in the country. do you think the woman who used a handgun to fend off a rapist is going to care what the numbers show? or the store clerk who fended off 3 thugs and lived to tell about it? ive spoken with them and can assure you they dont care.

 

[milehigh_7]

Declare martial law where anyone not obeying to the weapons grab would be shot on the spot for being in violation to an emergency action by the government. Disallow all gatherings disallow any unauthorized travel, disallow the INTERNET, TV, radio, and execute people like Rush Limbaugh, and any gun favoring conservative you can identify, find or flush out of their little toilets wherever they can be found.

Close all of the Christian Churches and gathering places and make illegal any kind of prayer to the Christian God. Make all children wards of the State and make certain they are educated according to this new Socialist agenda. In twenty years all gun violence will be gone except that which is committed by the government. What you can do when we get to this point is a question I hope I am not faced with but there you have it. Before you wish for something you better understand what it will take, mean or cause to happen to bring it about. There is no such thing as a benign dictatorship, and no group of people can feel more betrayed than those who have betrayed themselves and willingly given up their freedom for bondage.

This will happen Vance, it's more than just probable. The good book promises it. So, if all of this is just warm up, how do we treat each other in the mean time?

 

[Vance Wood]

This will happen Vance, it's more than just probable. The good book promises it. So, if all of this is just warm up, how do we treat each other in the mean time?

Jesus said: When you see all of these things happening rejoice and know that the end is near. Unfortunately we just put the truth into what many will look upon as the BS factor. Sadly that does not change the truth or nullify it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Jesus said: When you see all of these things happening rejoice and know that the end is near. Unfortunately we just put the truth into what many will look upon as the BS factor. Sadly that does not change the truth or nullify it.

How do we treat each other? Jesus said owe no man anything but to love them. The way things are going it is an easy thing to fall into hate and despair. You know what it right but at the same time there is the scripture that says, in the end they will not longer give an ear to sound doctrine but will instead heap unto themselves doctrines of devils.

 

[milehigh_7]

I was just saying, I really miss the days when there were certain things that we held dear and held sacred as Americans. Times like these brought us together. Now it's just another stupid excuse to fight. I'm a fighter, been one all my life. The scars on my knuckles have scars but I'm tired. I want peace. I want peace in my life, in my home and in my country.


I know that won't happen because our hearts are sinful but I'm just so tired...

 

[Vance Wood]

I was just saying, I really miss the days when there were certain things that we held dear and held sacred as Americans. Times like these brought us together. Now it's just another stupid excuse to fight. I'm a fighter, been one all my life. The scars on my knuckles have scars but I'm tired. I want peace. I want peace in my life, in my home and in my country.


I know that won't happen because our hearts are sinful but I'm just so tired...

I agree I too am vexed and have finally realized that there is little I can do except share my experiences with people and answer when asked.

 

[Wilson]

@Vance Wood wouldn't it be a beautiful thing if people actually followed Jesus's one true commandment of LOVE. It is something I have always had a hard time with when people extol the virtues of Christianity, but lack love for their fellow beings. I was raised going to Sunday school, church, singing in the choir, and taught to help those I can rich or poor.

 

[ianb]

which is exactly why any study would be a waste of time and tax dollars. either side getting results other than what they wanted would contest the validity. and in honesty - they should. there are so many contexts and variables that no one could agree on the paramaters.

you CAN find data using google. i know its fashionable for people to use the "but we cant get an official govt funded study" but there is info publicly available (or was when i last checked) on demographics, caliber, one stop shots, assault weapon ban rates, education etc. -on their own sites

what you wont find is an answer to the question - is more gun control the answer.

and bottom line - what if all the studies DID show that gun control would create a utopia of peace and love in the country. do you think the woman who used a handgun to fend off a rapist is going to care what the numbers show? or the store clerk who fended off 3 thugs and lived to tell about it? ive spoken with them and can assure you they dont care.

So after calling my comments bullshit you backtrack when asked to back up your position? I only mentioned the CDC or FBI as they are the best positioned to have access to the data but aren't allowed to because of the NRA lobbying congress.

Having lived in 2 countries with much more gun control and much lower levels of violent crime I believe there is a correlation.

Again for many americans it is an emotional response and your bottom line comment emphasizes this. The question then is how many other lives is it worth to fend off a rapist or store robbery?

 

[just.wing.it]

The question then is how many other lives is it worth to fend off a rapist

You'd rather women not be able to carry and just get raped instead???

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I have been told by people I trust that the shots sounded belt fed

Tell the people you trust that they aren't making sense. Saying gun fire sounded "belt felt" is like me saying a car sounded blue.

In order to buy, sell or own a belt-fed machine gun requires a Class III license, and you are put on a national database of machine-gun owners, and your machine gun is also nationally registered. Your machine gun must be pre-1986, since it is illegal to buy, sell or own anything more recent, and since they can't be imported any more, there are a limited number of them in the country and the number will only be declining over time. And you have to live in a state that allows machine gun ownership; California for example does not.

But let's say your friend has inside knowledge that the gun sounds (to him) like a German MG42 (current market value in the US around $52,000). What was his point? Why spend $50,000 on a machine gun when you can buy an AR-15 for $500, a bump stock for $250, and a Korean drum magazine for $250? A magazine-fed AR-15 with a bump stock has a higher rate of fire than, for example, an M-60 machine gun. A high-capacity AR-15 magazine has 30 rounds. A drum magazine has 50. A double drum (South Korean military issue) has 100. You don't really need a belt fed machine gun to accomplish what this guy did.

 

[justBonsai]

You'd rather women not be able to carry and just get raped instead???

I like how you put 2 and 2 together..... What is the point of these needless insults? I'd like to know too, how big a role gun carry plays in self defense relative to the number of gun owners in the US. Is having a gun for a sizable chunk of Americans the difference between a rape, robbery, or assault? Is lack of a gun the reason most women get raped too?

I guess this thread will have to me more of an agree to disagree deal. Everyone has their heads stuck too far up their own asses to have a proper debate. A lot of it is just speculation, conjecture, and emotional responses. Maybe there is some truth in here, but everyone only wants to believe their side of it.

 

[watchndsky]

So after calling my comments bullshit you backtrack when asked to back up your position? I only mentioned the CDC or FBI as they are the best positioned to have access to the data but aren't allowed to because of the NRA lobbying congress.

Having lived in 2 countries with much more gun control and much lower levels of violent crime I believe there is a correlation.

Again for many americans it is an emotional response and your bottom line comment emphasizes this. The question then is how many other lives is it worth to fend off a rapist or store robbery?

How many lives - I dont know why dont you ask my last boss after her partner was raped how many lives its worth. Is your wishful thinking more important than her right to fend off another attacker?

i didnt backtrack at all - you asked me and i told you where to find it and examples of what could be found. how is that backtracking? you want more info - you can pay me for it. but i charge quite a bit per hour - not that youre really interested in hearing any of it anyway. if i sat here and typed up every possible stat, law, option, scenario, outcome etc - would i influence you? or would you try your best to pick holes in it and tell me i wasnt accounting for this or overstating that? after EXHAUSTIVE and extremely lengthy discussions on this subject - the typical response is usually, sarcasm, insults or "i just dont believe that, you can make those numbers say whatever you want".

people like you are exactly why people like me dont care much for "studies" . you hear something you dont like and immediately attack the results- all you want to hear is what you want to hear. this isnt a topic that relies on the hard and fast rules of science- its nuanced, subjective and complex and a result can be easily "refuted" or "proven" by either side. no matter what data is presented - its not going to matter to you unless it fits your narrative.

and the data is sure not going to matter to the victims who decide to arm themselves and give themselves a fighting chance after being victimized. youre trying to diminish those folks with the "emotional response" argument - but to them it makes as much sense as you putting on a seatbelt or eating healthy.

 

[watchndsky]

I like how you put 2 and 2 together..... What is the point of these needless insults? I'd like to know too, how big a role gun carry plays in self defense relative to the number of gun owners in the US. Is having a gun for a sizable chunk of Americans the difference between a rape, robbery, or assault? Is lack of a gun the reason most women get raped too?

I guess this thread will have to me more of an agree to disagree deal. Everyone has their heads stuck too far up their own asses to have a proper debate. A lot of it is just speculation, conjecture, and emotional responses. Maybe there is some truth in here, but everyone only wants to believe their side of it.

is there a quota that must be met - do we need x number of defensive gun use cases to justify gun rights? do these use cases exclude rape cases? how are we going to quantify the "reason most women get raped" ? in my bosses case the assailant was "just gonna rob her but since she was unarmed and no one was around" decided to rape her (thats a direct quote from him during trial). are we giving weight to whether or not an attacker was armed? when dealing with disparity of force are we going to quantify the lethality of the weapon used or the apparent physical characteristics and number of assailants compared to the victims size to legitimize the outcome?

and how was @just.wing.it throwing an insult - it was a legitimate question and the same question i had in my mind after reading the guys response. the guy who says "everyone has their head stuck too far up their ass " accuses the guy asking a clarifying question of insults?

 

[just.wing.it]

I like how you put 2 and 2 together..... What is the point of these needless insults? I'd like to know too, how big a role gun carry plays in self defense relative to the number of gun owners in the US. Is having a gun for a sizable chunk of Americans the difference between a rape, robbery, or assault? Is lack of a gun the reason most women get raped too?

I guess this thread will have to me more of an agree to disagree deal. Everyone has their heads stuck too far up their own asses to have a proper debate. A lot of it is just speculation, conjecture, and emotional responses. Maybe there is some truth in here, but everyone only wants to believe their side of it.

It's an honest question....I think that's what he said, right? Sounds weird to me.

Also, just for you, this:
An armed person is a citizen, an unarmed person is a subject.

 

[just.wing.it]

is there a quota that must be met - do we need x number of defensive gun use cases to justify gun rights? do these use cases exclude rape cases? how are we going to quantify the "reason most women get raped" ? in my bosses case the assailant was "just gonna rob her but since she was unarmed and no one was around" decided to rape her (thats a direct quote from him during trial). are we giving weight to whether or not an attacker was armed? when dealing with disparity of force are we going to quantify the lethality of the weapon used or the apparent physical characteristics and number of assailants compared to the victims size to legitimize the outcome?

and how was @just.wing.it throwing an insult - it was a legitimate question and the same question i had in my mind after reading the guys response. the guy who says "everyone has their head stuck too far up their ass " accuses the guy asking a clarifying question of insults?

Thanks man, it was a real question....
I was surprised by that response,

 

[Bolero]

Listen up people this is America...Arm yourself... Go out and buy a couple Handguns and an AR15, I recommend 9MM for HG and .223 for the AR15, visit your local Gun Range and learn how to use these Guns...

This is America where anything goes as long as you can get away with it...

If you are an American enjoy your Freedoms but Take Care...Anything goes.

 

[justBonsai]

is there a quota that must be met - do we need x number of defensive gun use cases to justify gun rights? do these use cases exclude rape cases? how are we going to quantify the "reason most women get raped" ? in my bosses case the assailant was "just gonna rob her but since she was unarmed and no one was around" decided to rape her (thats a direct quote from him during trial). are we giving weight to whether or not an attacker was armed? when dealing with disparity of force are we going to quantify the lethality of the weapon used or the apparent physical characteristics and number of assailants compared to the victims size to legitimize the outcome?

and how was @just.wing.it throwing an insult - it was a legitimate question and the same question i had in my mind after reading the guys response. the guy who says "everyone has their head stuck too far up their ass " accuses the guy asking a clarifying question of insults?

Hey watchndsky I was asking in earnest because I really do not know how much of a difference having a gun makes. I'm not trying to imply anything so please don't lay my supposed train of thought for me. I said @just.wing.it was throwing an insult because I am sure ianb is not undermining rapes and certainly would NOT want women to get raped. Maybe ianb's comment was a bit distasteful treating 2 serious issues as just a data value. I am sure you, that has seen the effects of assault and rape to people you know, have good reason to take offense.

Sure lets just say @just.wing.it's question is legitimate. I wonder how far we'd get if all of our questions were just as loaded with a clear attempt to insult or rile the other party.