Lifetime Tree Death Count

[Poink88]

About 65% of the trees I had did not wake up from winter. I haven't the foggiest idea why. This hobby is a heart-wrenching one. Not sure I've bounced back from that blow yet. Maybe suiseki is more my speed.

That must be tough. Sorry. More free space for the next collecting. BTW, I hope you have that Chinese Quince cutting going. I am seriously waiting for it.

I may not have had the mortality rate you experienced, but I had more carnage than ever before. Chewed off branches, dead limbs, dieback, rotting roots. This is not good, Beavis. I will chalk it up to an F*ed up winter season with a lot more snow, causing rabbits and fuzzy tail tree-rats to go apesh!t and have their way with my trees. Telepathic note to my dog: spring training is headed your way pup. Get ready for two-a-days. I'm not about to 'fuhgetaboutit'. NFW.

Sorry to hear that but it also sound funny the way you put it. LOL What type dog do you have?

 

[Paradox]

Not sure how many I killed so far, but many were experiments that I tried to see what a particular species could stand and they didnt make it.

The most painful one for me was an Austrian pine that didnt make it over the winter because I didnt know what the best way to overwinter it was and I didnt protect it enough. Also the soil/pot it was in wasnt the best but I got it too late in the year to really do anything about it. It had a really nice trunk.

Fortunately none were expensive trees and I did learn from them.

I only lost one this winter though and that was because of events last summer/fall and it got neglected.

 

[Dav4]

About 65% of the trees I had did not wake up from winter. I haven't the foggiest idea why. This hobby is a heart-wrenching one. Not sure I've bounced back from that blow yet. Maybe suiseki is more my speed.

Don't write them off yet! Give it at least another month. There are more then a few south of you with trees that are still struggling to get going this year....good luck with them.

 

[CHUCHIN]

berobinson

Just read your post! Heartbreaking to read but I bring encouragement and ask that you remain engaged in the art. I have been in bonsai for 15 Years and ask anyone who know me, I always say I am forever a student. I bring this up because Bonsai is always teaching me and I am always learning. Many years ago I suffered great losses some trees that cost me in the thousands...I recall the pain and suffering vividly and at the time I felt overwhelming emotions to quit and felt that I could not recover from the suffering.

I begin doing other things but eventually circled back because I love Bonsai! Looking back I felt the pain and suffering was a graduation for me in Bonsai. You live, you suffer, you learn.
For one thing, the death and dying taught me greater awareness, raised my aptitude about how to properly provide care and accept a greater commitment to the art.

Even as I write this, I remember my dead friends but I also am grateful for the benefit of the lessons I learned as a consequence of their death which my living friends are benefiting from today. Theres a saying through great pain and sufferings comes great things.

Learn from this, calibrate and keep at it. Naka, Kimura, Suthin, Bill all leaders in the art have a death ward. But look at what they have living, look at their trees, legacy trees etc...I wish you the best...My closing remark and not to give you false hope but the same year I self obliterated my collection, I had a tree taught to be dead for over a year... A wisteria that went from April -Sept to only come to life in the fall. I still have that tree!!! So don't give up and manage the expectations...

CHUCHIN

 

[berobinson82]

Hey thanks guys. The positivity and encouragement is well received. It hurt like hell, but I've still got some trees out back to keep me in the game. This year will be a planning one. See you at the arboretum.

 

[johng]

Kobiyashi's death pile

Of course I have lost more trees than I count over the years...I have 3-4 this year that our toast...mainly water elms...they just didn't like being frozen solid.

While in Japan, we were wandering around Mr. Kobiyashi's garden. I was in the back of his garden and looked behind a small building. To my dismay there was a pile of dead trees...at least 10 or more world class quality trees heaped in a pile over 4' tall...I took a picture but have since lost track of it.

Much of what we do to our trees is very unnatural...potting, pruning, wiring, etc...

I guess this just goes to show that even the best(Mr. Kobiyashi) kill trees. It is unfortunate, and it always saddens me, but in the end it is all part of the process.

 

[keri-wms]

I've still got about 20 that are finished-ish and about 200 semi trained / raw. I've probably lost about 50 finished and 50-100 raw material.

UK winter vs Chinese Elms hasn't been good, and pines REALLY don't like me.

 

[CHUCHIN]

Of course I have lost more trees than I count over the years...I have 3-4 this year that our toast...mainly water elms...they just didn't like being frozen solid.

While in Japan, we were wandering around Mr. Kobiyashi's garden. I was in the back of his garden and looked behind a small building. To my dismay there was a pile of dead trees...at least 10 or more world class quality trees heaped in a pile over 4' tall...I took a picture but have since lost track of it.

Much of what we do to our trees is very unnatural...potting, pruning, wiring, etc...

I guess this just goes to show that even the best(Mr. Kobiyashi) kill trees. It is unfortunate, and it always saddens me, but in the end it is all part of the process.

Thank you for this point about Kobayashi. Maybe what would help us all one day is if some of these masters talked about this topic a little bit more. That greatness isn't an exemption from death... A great article about killing trees lol. I know Naka mentioned that the killing of trees was part of the calculus.

I think most of us fail to realize that death of trees convey with the art. Some of us associate the passing of trees as failure. This was too my thinking until i started seeing death as lessons...Opportunities of tutelage. After a while you don't stop death...Its imminent but you prolong life tof your trees...You learn how to keep them alive.

 

[ml_work]

My Kill to Live ratio is still very high on the Kill Side! I was keeping up with pictures for awhile, but it got to be more than I wanted to look at. Most that die were my fault, just part of learning. I think my well water has been a big part of the problem too. I have keep my purchase at around $100.00 limit, so the money loss does not hurt so bad. Regardless of the cost it can hurt, be aggervating and most discouraging to lose any tree. The 2 that I feel had the most potential were a JBP and an Azalea (BVF will reconize it). The JBP was the closest thing I have had to really nice pine. I purchsed it at Brussels in 2009, as I was leavng the hotel that morning to go to the sale a young man about the age of any of my sons was on the elevator. As we made small take he told me he was going to Brussels too. Well that afternoon when they had the free demostration of a JBP styling the young man was introduced, Bjorn Bjorholm, just retuned to the states from training in Japan. After he did the demo he assisted anyone who had purchsed a tree that day. I had no tools or wire, he used his tool and wire to do most of the wire and held my hand on the wiring I did.
I allowed the tree to stay in the nursery pot that year and repotted in 2010, it did well that year. After decandle in 2011 it went down hill from that point. Never came back, it still sits dead in the pot out on the bench.

 

[edprocoat]

This is a sad thread ! Its tough to read of so many people losing their trees to freezing solid, I lost several this way 2 falls back, but thats why we protect them from the cold and what happens when we do not. I hate to think of the trees I have killed and those that commited suicide to escape the abuse I subjected them to.

ed

 

[Q-Bonsai]

My Kill to Live ratio is still very high on the Kill Side! I was keeping up with pictures for awhile, but it got to be more than I wanted to look at. Most that die were my fault, just part of learning. I think my well water has been a big part of the problem too. I have keep my purchase at around $100.00 limit, so the money loss does not hurt so bad. Regardless of the cost it can hurt, be aggervating and most discouraging to lose any tree. The 2 that I feel had the most potential were a JBP and an Azalea (BVF will reconize it). The JBP was the closest thing I have had to really nice pine. I purchsed it at Brussels in 2009, as I was leavng the hotel that morning to go to the sale a young man about the age of any of my sons was on the elevator. As we made small take he told me he was going to Brussels too. Well that afternoon when they had the free demostration of a JBP styling the young man was introduced, Bjorn Bjorholm, just retuned to the states from training in Japan. After he did the demo he assisted anyone who had purchsed a tree that day. I had no tools or wire, he used his tool and wire to do most of the wire and held my hand on the wiring I did.
I allowed the tree to stay in the nursery pot that year and repotted in 2010, it did well that year. After decandle in 2011 it went down hill from that point. Never came back, it still sits dead in the pot out on the bench.

Your story with the black pine gave me chills. That has yet to happen to me. All the trees that have died in my yard were mainly due to neglect so I obviously haven't lost anything I care about.

I found that cheaper stuff tends to die easier Maybe you should get a nicer tree, spend more money on it, and see how your habits change in caring for your trees. I think you'd be surprised!

Although I've lost a lot, most have been due to experimentation and none on anything I loved. My very first tree was $350 which is A LOT for me at the time as a complete beginner. I was terrified to kill it so I took every precaution in working with it.

 

[Poink88]

Your story with the black pine gave me chills. That has yet to happen to me. All the trees that have died in my yard were mainly due to neglect so I obviously haven't lost anything I care about.

I found that cheaper stuff tends to die easier Maybe you should get a nicer tree, spend more money on it, and see how your habits change in caring for your trees. I think you'd be surprised!

Although I've lost a lot, most have been due to experimentation and none on anything I loved. My very first tree was $350 which is A LOT for me at the time as a complete beginner. I was terrified to kill it so I took every precaution in working with it.

I have yet to spend $350 on a tree.

Re: your comment "I found that cheaper stuff tends to die easier", I guess it all boils down to how we value each tree. I treat my cuttings same way as my most expensive tree. I experiment on them equally as I see the need to push them. I get as much excitement for a tiny bud on a cutting (probably more-because it is critical for it) as one from any of my trees.

It is probably best that I got most of my stock for free or cheaply because it gave me the courage to be myself early...to do what I feel needed doing and not be held back by (monetary) fear. Surely I committed many foolish choices but I learned from them and I think I am better now due to those poor choices.

To those who think I am a reckless fool for not being "invested"...they couldn't be mistaken more. What I lack in spending cash on my trees, I replaced with sweat and blood (literally). None of my trees are worth much yet but to me they are precious and by the amount of time I spend on them...none will sell for what I (personally) value them at.

 

[coh]

I lost 2 trees last winter (to underwatering, I'm pretty sure). One was the most expensive tree I had purchased to date, the other was a free tree. But the free tree was a very old, collected pear with absolutely fantastic bark. The other was a trunk-finished chinese quince that someone had invested quite a few years in developing. I was about equally bummed about both trees, and actually feel guilty about wasting that persons work over the years, even though I paid decent money for the tree.

I pay more attention to winter care now, though. Looks like everything has made it through this winter, though there are a couple of trees that haven't started to leaf out yet. They are usually late anyway so I think they'll be OK.

 

[Dav4]

I lost 2 trees last winter (to underwatering, I'm pretty sure). One was the most expensive tree I had purchased to date, the other was a free tree. But the free tree was a very old, collected pear with absolutely fantastic bark. The other was a trunk-finished chinese quince that someone had invested quite a few years in developing. I was about equally bummed about both trees, and actually feel guilty about wasting that persons work over the years, even though I paid decent money for the tree.

I pay more attention to winter care now, though. Looks like everything has made it through this winter, though there are a couple of trees that haven't started to leaf out yet. They are usually late anyway so I think they'll be OK.

That's a bummer. When I wintered trees in a garage in MA, I always kept the pots covered in frozen mulch and snow when it was available...never had to worry about them drying out that way.

 

[Q-Bonsai]

I have yet to spend $350 on a tree.

Re: your comment "I found that cheaper stuff tends to die easier", I guess it all boils down to how we value each tree. I treat my cuttings same way as my most expensive tree. I experiment on them equally as I see the need to push them. I get as much excitement for a tiny bud on a cutting (probably more-because it is critical for it) as one from any of my trees.

It is probably best that I got most of my stock for free or cheaply because it gave me the courage to be myself early...to do what I feel needed doing and not be held back by (monetary) fear. Surely I committed many foolish choices but I learned from them and I think I am better now due to those poor choices.

To those who think I am a reckless fool for not being "invested"...they couldn't be mistaken more. What I lack in spending cash on my trees, I replaced with sweat and blood (literally). None of my trees are worth much yet but to me they are precious and by the amount of time I spend on them...none will sell for what I (personally) value them at.

I completely understand your point. It depends on the attachment to a tree. However with everything remaining equal, people tend to care more for things that cost them more to acquire (cost = money + time + effort + sentiment + etc).

My fault for making a generalized statement in his particular case. He mentioned not wanting to spend too much money so I just took that and ran with it.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Two developing young JBP in summer; got too dry.
Three to 4 Japanese maples in pots or in the ground; too much Texas summer heat and sun. I was experimenting how much it could tolerate.
One Japanese maple Nishiki gawa; too dry in the summer.
One rosemary about 10 years old; died of stress from repotting/collecting.

What I've learned: It's hotter here, so I have to water more frequently and get things like Japanese maples into shade in the summer.

 

[GrimLore]

I lost more then one tree over 1k when I started(yes, idiot). Seeing my Wife had so many years with Tropicals I "thought" I had an expert on "all plants" 7/24... Well after a few years of learning I am happy to say things that I have are doing well and she is happy to not be bothered with them. It took going on 7 years but I can repopulate with confidence now or at least a lot more knowledge. Also in that time we recently moved and I gave away a LOT of expensive stock knowing the house and yard renovations would take several months. Either way Bonsai became a part of my life and I am a better person because of it.

Grimmy

 

[bdwarner]

This is my first post here, hello! I've only been growing bonsai for about 3 years now.. about 6 or so. None of my trees have been over thirty dollars but I still love them. I lost two pretty nice trees in 2012 when I was living in an artist studio warehouse in Detroit (harsh summers and even harsher winters). I tried to keep a Plum alive through one winter.. a big fail, and eventually watered the roots off of a Fukien tea the same winter (both went off in a Viking funeral the next spring). I was really upset the same year I sprouted two Ginkos from seed and both made it through that winter and during the following spring our pup Bruno made minced meat out of them while rummaging in our lot- I felt like he ate my 2 first born.

It is interesting how everything seems cyclical. The trees Ive tried to pamper usually die but the trees I put through hell seem to get tougher (imo). My first year I got a nice little Quince and kept it growing through the same winter as well as probably overwatering it each week, but now its still alive and has more gorgeous blooms i've ever seen all over it right now.

When I was still living in Detroit a buddy and I used to frequent many abandoned buildings and factories in the area. I found a decent sized red maple growing on a pile of bricks and figured I would try my hand at a yamadori.. roots not even in dirt, just tangled in bricks. I savagely ripped it up in the middle of the summer while destroying the tap root and mostly all the roots,
but somehow it came back that first year and is still alive in my backyard and has more leaves then ever.

Don't get me wrong- I love caring for my trees but I suppose what dosent kill em makes em stronger.

 

[Poink88]

bdwarner,

Welcome to B-Nut!

Partly correct...they survive because they are local to your area thus totally acclimated already and by you taking that maple...you moved it in a much more hospitable location than the dump it was on earlier. For it (even w/ neglect) you moved it to a 5 star accommodation! That plus for it to survive earlier...it is a fighter to begin with.

 

[coh]

This is my first post here, hello! I've only been growing bonsai for about 3 years now.. about 6 or so. None of my trees have been over thirty dollars but I still love them. I lost two pretty nice trees in 2012 when I was living in an artist studio warehouse in Detroit (harsh summers and even harsher winters). I tried to keep a Plum alive through one winter.. a big fail, and eventually watered the roots off of a Fukien tea the same winter (both went off in a Viking funeral the next spring). I was really upset the same year I sprouted two Ginkos from seed and both made it through that winter and during the following spring our pup Bruno made minced meat out of them while rummaging in our lot- I felt like he ate my 2 first born.

It is interesting how everything seems cyclical. The trees Ive tried to pamper usually die but the trees I put through hell seem to get tougher (imo). My first year I got a nice little Quince and kept it growing through the same winter as well as probably overwatering it each week, but now its still alive and has more gorgeous blooms i've ever seen all over it right now.

When I was still living in Detroit a buddy and I used to frequent many abandoned buildings and factories in the area. I found a decent sized red maple growing on a pile of bricks and figured I would try my hand at a yamadori.. roots not even in dirt, just tangled in bricks. I savagely ripped it up in the middle of the summer while destroying the tap root and mostly all the roots,
but somehow it came back that first year and is still alive in my backyard and has more leaves then ever.

Don't get me wrong- I love caring for my trees but I suppose what dosent kill em makes em stronger.

Sometimes what doesn't kill 'em immediately, weakens them and they slowly decline and die later. And some species are tougher than others. Many deciduous trees can come back from having most of their roots removed (at the right time of year). Don't try that on a pine, though.

A deciduous tree like quince may very well slowly decline and die over a period of years if you try to keep it growing indoors year round. This could be why you think trees that you pamper tend to die...if pampering means keeping them growing through the winter...they're not really made for that. Some species can handle this, others can't.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

Chris