So, we should all post something substantial about bonsai, such as your example of starting a thread to complain about other threads that don't talk about anything substantial?Chris Johnston said:But it seems to me that "majoring on minors" is a lot of what we are doing lately. We will argue incessantly about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (or which is the best source of bonsai material, or Superthrive, or soil mix, or almost anything else) while very little of substance gets said about how to grow healthier bonsai in order to have more opportunity to make beautiful bonsai.
Wonderfully said Chris...Thank You.Many, many years ago, I heard this phrase repeatedly. At the time, I was a Baptist fundamentalist "preacher-boy" making my way through college, worrying quite a lot about others' hair length, clothing choices, and eschatological theories. I feel much better now, thank you for asking.
But it seems to me that "majoring on minors" is a lot of what we are doing lately. We will argue incessantly about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (or which is the best source of bonsai material, or Superthrive, or soil mix, or almost anything else) while very little of substance gets said about how to grow healthier bonsai in order to have more opportunity to make beautiful bonsai.
Without naming names, I must say I am really disappointed in the way all this has gone down lately.
One of the things I find very distasteful is the tendency of certain writers to speak down to their readers. I and most folks who have been able to make their way onto the interwebs have at least a modicum of intelligence. Don't insult that. If you have a point to make, quit doling it out in a few sentences at a time. Make your argument so it doesn't get hijacked or interrupted and then it's far easier for folks to evaluate it. And leave your insults at home. It's one thing to go head to head with someone with whom you disagree or for whom you have distaste. But be specific. I didn't call you a poopyhead.
Another that I find very difficult to swallow (and I speak for myself in these things, but think perhaps others share them) is a premise of any kind expressed in absolute terms. This is as unscientific as I was in the pulpit in those days. If you are making a scientific point, really read some of the papers you are quoting and notice that most scientists hedge their statements by noting the limitations of their studies, or mentioning where more study is needed. Simply stating, "the preponderence of scientific studies lead me to believe" would certainly deflect a great deal of carping.
By all means, make your point and argue it passionately. But this scorched-earth policy is stupid, divisive, and ugly. Some people think that if they believe they are right, they have to make everyone else seem stupid. It's disgusting.
Like many others before me, I will just say that this is getting old. The need to be on top is peurile and petty. I don't want to be one of those of whom it is said, "He thinks of himself more highly than he ought." Or, "He's a legend in his own mind."
Don't start with me.
It's not important Chris. The evidence is right here and on many forums. For the most part it is always Will and Vance against most everyone else. Each argue the hell out of their respective opinion and no conclusion is ever drawn. We still each continue to do bonsai in our own way.
My proposal is to continue to post pictures of your work and it's continued improvement. I do this and once an a while Will will ask questions about my work. Not always good questions but at least he is looking. Sometimes there are compliments too. I sometimes have to look hard though cause they are overshadowed by the sarcasim. The sarcasim feels good though. If he didn't care he would not ask questions. When I answer them I feel he is learning.
Al, I know this may be hard for you to understand, but this isn't and wasn't about you, it never was. never will be.
But since you are right in the middle, please point out these "many forums" the evidence to support your words is located at.
Also, substantiated fact is not opinion, and the conclusions are always there, what remains are those who choose to accept them or not. For example, I remember how you called my "Three Dimensional Bonsai" article stupid and went on for pages and pages about how it was flawed and that the concept was whacked. Later the article was published in Bonsai Today and other publications and translated into three languages. I received emails telling me how the article changed peoples perceptions, and we see references to such bonsai as described on forums all over the world, almost on a daily basis. The latest of which was at http://www.internationalbonsaiforum.com/index.php?topic=112.0 It wasn't a fad, not impossible, not foolish, but a valid form of bonsai expression used before I wrote the article and used after you condemned the practice.
What may also surprise you is that the very thing you claim to want is actually happening all over the web, such as at the link above....that is serious discussion on bonsai. It is there to be found, for those who truly want it. It can be had here, there, anywhere, just do it, I do.
So why not stop jumping in like you did here just to throw barbs and actually practice what you preach? If you can.
And if you're going to throw a hissy fit every time someone does anything but praise your trees....stop showing them and just pretend they are perfect.
Under my skin, man you certainly have an over exaggerated sense of worth. Actually you only make me laugh, thank you for the humor, it is always fun to watch people who claim to be intelligent resort to name calling.I love it when I actually get under your skin....Rave on gas bag. Thanks for your resume...AGAIN.
Nice words, Al, but without words, this forum, or any other forum, magazine, and most books wouldn't be around at all. Bonsai would certainly be in sad shape then. You see, it takes more than posting pictures Al, believe it or not, most people do more than just look at the pretty pictures, but hey, I guess we all seek our own level, don't we?Trees Will, It's about trees. We don't care about your words. Post some trees.
For the record I never condemed your practise.....
I would like to see some of Will's trees also. The only ones I've seen have been initial stylings. I've seen lots of Al's trees, and I like them a lot. I would like to see Will's trees, so I know whom I should ignore and whom I shouldn't. I don't really care about articles. I can recite maxims all day, but that doesn't put world class trees on my benches.
Al, I know this may be hard for you to understand, but this isn't and wasn't about you, it never was. never will be
Oh Will, say it again Brother!
It is NOT about Will. Never was. Never will be!
Say it again Brother! Amen!!
It is NOT about Will. Never was. Never will be!
... man you certainly have an over exaggerated sense of worth. Actually you only make me laugh, thank you for the humor, it is always fun to watch people who claim to be intelligent resort to name calling.
Hey, Mr. Kettle! Show me some of your trees, then I will know for sure who is faking it. How about it, no more bullsaht man, put up or shut up! You want everyone to think that you are an authority. Put up now, or forever hold your tongue.
I would like to see Will's trees, so I know whom I should ignore and whom I shouldn't. I don't really care about articles. I can recite maxims all day, but that doesn't put world class trees on my bench
Amen! You see, typical talking heads can recite what they read or what they are told, but that does not make them an authority. Is your librarian an authority on genetics because he can tell you what section it is in?
Mr Heath is just a poor boy wanna-be who writes articles about what other people do, and claims some kind of kindred spirit and osmotic knowledge because he has talked to them for his little website