Making Soil with local items

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
That said, trees that I value highly are always in my regular bonsai mix of 1/3 akadama, 1/3 pumice, and 1/3 lava. Its a little more expensive but worth it. What's an extra $25 in soil when the tree is worth $1000?
Paul

This is the best advice you will ever get concerning bonsai soil, use it or bang your head against a wall for the next ten years.

Harry
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Rockm did mention it. You living in CA would not have an issue, but Akadama does turn to mush in one winter with a lot of thaw freeze cycles. So not a good soil choice for PA I'm thinking.

Not if you use the high fired red stuff.
Harry
 

monza

Shohin
Messages
384
Reaction score
11
Location
Alberta, Canada
USDA Zone
3
Not if you use the high fired red stuff.
Harry

Maybe....double line brand- hard quality? That's the kind I have that turned to mush, tested it again last winter because I have bags of it I'd like to use. Is that the wrong kind? That' the only english on the bag.

Edit: remember not all of us have little pansy winters like in Oklahoma! Ha
 
Last edited:

Bill S

Masterpiece
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
28
Location
Western Massachusetts
USDA Zone
5a
Basically we have for the most part learned there are no tricks to making what you need less expensive than it is. Many of the alternate "soils" will grow trees, if you work at it someone says you can use a bowl full of marbles. Many of the people recommending the use of oil dry are from Europe, and they have different stuff from most of what I have seen on the boards.
The trick is keeping a healthy thriving tree so you can use the torture tecniques that we use, the tried and true mixes work well, the others, well you will have to see for yourself, or use advice given. The is a lot of threads on soils, as well as articles.

On the sage side of things, the foundation is as, if not more important than structure, bad foundation, bad structure - unless you get lucky. The mix you make might keep a tree happy for a day, three, or a half, how much time can you dedicate to being there to check to see if they need water. Pots shape and size makes a differance as well.

There are article and such about bonsai on the cheap, cheap is very variable, and not necessarilly a good way to go. I'd kind of hate to say it but if $7.00 is expensive, this isn't a great choice of hobbies.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
All
I understand the soil is as best as the money you put to it. I am willing to pay for what I need. But I am looking for what I need. Were do I get the supplies for the Akadama, pumice and lava? Were do I buy the complete Bonsai mixes.

I live in a part of the country that does not have Bonsai supplies. So I need to either purchase on the internet or local supplies. I do not have the luctury to drive 2 hours to Philly or Baltimore.

I would like to see if someone can please advise the best supplies to use and either sites to purchase from or local supplies that I can use. For example the Dry Stall and Turface MVP.

I appreciate the time everyone puts in and I am trying to learn so please send me information that I can learn from not nock me down for trying.
 
Messages
200
Reaction score
4
Location
columbus, ohio
USDA Zone
6a
All

I would like to see if someone can please advise the best supplies to use and either sites to purchase from or local supplies that I can use. For example the Dry Stall and Turface MVP.

I appreciate the time everyone puts in and I am trying to learn so please send me information that I can learn from not nock me down for trying.

I appreciate your frustration and I am going to complicate matters a bit. based on where you live, you may be able to get Haydite, which is an expanded shale product. It is produced locally (Eastern US) and may be less expensive than akadama. I find that it holds up to winter freeze/thaw cycles, but I keep my trees protected in mulch, so they may not be exposed to too much of that.

http://www.hpbhaydite.com/
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
All
I understand the soil is as best as the money you put to it. I am willing to pay for what I need. But I am looking for what I need. Were do I get the supplies for the Akadama, pumice and lava? Were do I buy the complete Bonsai mixes.

I live in a part of the country that does not have Bonsai supplies. So I need to either purchase on the internet or local supplies. I do not have the luctury to drive 2 hours to Philly or Baltimore.

I would like to see if someone can please advise the best supplies to use and either sites to purchase from or local supplies that I can use. For example the Dry Stall and Turface MVP.

I appreciate the time everyone puts in and I am trying to learn so please send me information that I can learn from not nock me down for trying.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I have been through this many times. I have to buy the good stuff through the mail, so it can get expensive because of shipping. I understand some can't afford to lay out the cash in this economy. I wish I had an easy solution for you, but the sad truth is I don't. You can get some dealers to offer you a better price if you buy in quanity. If you belong to a club, maybe you could get several members to go in together and buy a larger quanity to help offset the cost

Harry
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
I will try and find hyadite.

What about vermiculite? That syas it hold water.
 

HotAction

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
21
Location
Syracuse, NY
USDA Zone
5
All
I live in a part of the country that does not have Bonsai supplies. So I need to either purchase on the internet or local supplies. I do not have the luctury to drive 2 hours to Philly or Baltimore.

Sounds like you're close to Harrisburg to me? Can't figure out why you say you're part of the country doesn't have bonsi supplies, seems to me you are smack dab in the middle of a bonsai hotbed. Check out Nature's Way Nursery in Harrisburg, Jim will have everything you need. Buy one bag of soil mix, and a couple bags of turface and drystall, mix them together and you'll have enough soil to pot everything you need for at least a couple years for $70.

Dave
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
Wow thats only hour away !

Thanks for the information !!!

I looked on the internet and good not find anything that was not in Pittsburg or Philly.

Again thanks
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Here are some folks that can help you.


PENNSYLVANIA - Harrisburg
Susquehanna Bonsai Club. Meets third Monday, 7:00 PM. Contact James and Mary Kay Doyle, 145l Pleasant Hill Rd., Harrisburg, PA 17112, (717) 545-4555 for meeting locations. Club since l98l. Over 200 members.

PENNSYLVANIA - Huntingdon Valley
Pennypack Bonsai Society. Meets the second Thursday of every month at Pennypack Ecological Restoration Trust 2955 Edgehill Road, Huntingdon Valley, PA. Website: http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/panda/121/

PENNSYLVANIA - Lancaster
Lancaster Bonsai Society. Meets at historic Conestoga House and Gardens at 1608 Marietta Pike (Rt. 23), just west of Lancaster. The club meets in the library every 2nd Wednesday of the month, except for December, at 7:00 PM. Member of Potomac Bonsai Society. Spring and fall shows. Contact: e-mail: ulrich51@excite.com

PENNSYLVANIA - Lehigh Valley
Bonsai Society of Lehigh Valley. Meets at Bethlehem Area Vocational Technical School, Horticultural Room, 3300 Chester Ave., Bethlehem, last Tuesday, 7:00 PM, except July, August, December. Jim Gillespie, (610) 837-6688. Members come from Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and surrounding areas of Lehigh Valley. Mailing address: PO Box 1684, Bethlehem, PA 18016-1684. Mid-May exhibit. http://www.bonsaisocietylehighvalley.org

PENNSYLVANIA - Philadelphia
Pennsylvania Bonsai Society. Meets at Greater Plymouth Community Center, 2910 Jolly Rd, Plymouth Meeting, PA, third Friday, 7:00 PM. Linda Brant, 610-948-6380. Email: lbrant@comcast.net Website: http://pabonsai.org

PENNSYLVANIA - Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh Bonsai Society. Meets at Pittsburgh Civic Garden Center, 5th and Shady Ave., third Wednesday, 7:00 PM. Don Gould, 239 James St., Wilkins Twp, PA 15145. (412) 823- 2090. Seminars, exhibits, workshops, beginner and advanced classes.

PENNSYLVANIA - Pittston
North East Pennsylvania Bonsai Society meets Last Wednesday of each month at 7:00 pm at Midway Garden Center 1865 Highway 315 Pittson, PA. The Northeast PA Bonsai Society was begun in June of 1988 and continues the mission of providing a place for its members to come together to expand and share their knowledge and skills as well as advancing and promoting interest in bonsai among the general public in Northeastern Pennsylvania. For more information contact Susan Lauer 570-654-6194 selauermgc@aol.com

PENNSYLVANIA - Reading
Reading Bonsai Society. Club Meetings are held the first Monday of each month at 7pm in the Reading Public Museum Auditorium. Enter through the back security entrance. For more information contact Alan Groff (610) 927-2272. alang@inter-graphic.com. Club website: www.RedRival.com/rbc

PENNSYLVANIA - West Miton
Augusta Bonsai Club. Meets on the second Monday of each month at 6:30 PM at the United Chridt Church, White Deer Churches, West Milton, PA. An occasional meeting held at members homes. Contact: John Bierley(570) 546-7811, Email: quietspiritarts@hotmail.com Meetings are fun and informal. Occasionally a field trip and every September a picnic.

PENNSYLVANIA (Southeast) - Wilmington, DE
Brandywine Bonsai Society. Meets every third Saturday of the month (except December) at the Brandywine Town Center, Wilmington-West Chester Pike (Rte 202) & Naamans Road (Rte 92), at 10:00 AM. Varied programs include guest masters. Annual bonsai shows in the courtyard of the Brandywine River Museum (Chadds Ford, PA) in June and at Longwood Gardens (Kennett Square, PA) in the fall. Contact: Steve Ittel,302-778-4546 or by e-mail BrandywineBonsai@comcast.net Web site: http://www.gobbs.org

http://www.mecobonsai.com/t-About.aspx

Good luck,
Harry
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Maybe....double line brand- hard quality? That's the kind I have that turned to mush, tested it again last winter because I have bags of it I'd like to use. Is that the wrong kind? That' the only english on the bag.

Edit: remember not all of us have little pansy winters like in Oklahoma! Ha

It seems you and I had different results. I'll swap one of my summers for one of you winters anytime....;)

Harry
 

pgstroud@aol.com

Seedling
Messages
22
Reaction score
1
I really can not afford to keep buying already made soil. I did some reading on this site and have found some items. I am looking to see if these will work together and how much of each I cshould use.

I found the following items
- NAPA stay dry
- Shreaded Pine bark
- Chicken Grit
- Small river rock (Aquarium)

will this work?

If you have a John Deere dealer closeby they carry turface and at a reasonable price. Go online and find formulas for bonsai soil. Sifted pine bark works well with river rock (pea gravel; I get mine reasonably from a local landscape supply that supplies mulch, etc.) It is termed"pea gravel" and is small jagged rock that makes a good soil conditioner & is very inexpensive since I take a container and fill it myself. Some formulas use Fafard 52, a soil mixture used along with turface and grit (river rock or chicken grit). You can find the formulas online. The NAPA product is good if you cant find turface or pumice.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
This bonsai collector uses Akadama, and he lives in Pennsylvania .......... !!
If you've never visited his site, the password is bonsai.

Harry
http://www.thekennettco.org/
 

monza

Shohin
Messages
384
Reaction score
11
Location
Alberta, Canada
USDA Zone
3
This bonsai collector uses Akadama, and he lives in Pennsylvania .......... !!
If you've never visited his site, the password is bonsai.

Harry
http://www.thekennettco.org/


Yea but his trees didn't look very good!

Actually that collection is unreal! The whole yard and greenhouse just outstanding, WOW thanks for posting. That has to be the best bonsai garden I've seen.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Yea but his trees didn't look very good!

Actually that collection is unreal! The whole yard and greenhouse just outstanding, WOW thanks for posting. That has to be the best bonsai garden I've seen.

Me too !!!

Doug's collection is the finest in the USA in my opinion.

Harry
 
Last edited:

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
All;
Last part of this question. I have several plants I will need to pot and I need your help with the mix.

I am going to use the Turface, Stable dry and pine bark. Can you tell me what percentage I should use for the following.

Mulberry - 40% Turface 60% Bark?
Crab Apple- 40% Turface 60% Bark?
Pin Oak- 40% Turface 60% Bark?
Ficus (indoor)- 50% Bark 50% Truface?
Crepe Mrytal- 40% Turface 60% Bark?

I have my BRT in soil from the grower

Thanks
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Use the opposite proportions and you may have sucess. The amount of organics in bonsai soil should always be less than the non-soil ingredients.

FWIW, the notion that you have to pay a premium for "the best" bonsai soil is false. There is a very happy medium between expensive and cheap. Bagged double line Akadama is VERY bag expensive. Last two gallon bag I saw in a bonsai nursery was $45. If you can't find it locally (and you probably aren't going to, since its usually carried only by specialty high-end nurseries) you can add in another $20-$30 for shipping per bag.

I've been using Haydite, crushed granite, crushed quartz sand (swimming pool filter sand), baby orchid bark and composted pine bark in various combinations for 20 years. Those mixes have been more than adequate. Avoid vermiculite. It's too light to hold plants in a container.

FWIW, I have also used Akadama--the expensive, double line high-fired kind. It doesn't break down and it works very well, BUT, I also have to buy groceries and feed my kid, so it's an uncessary luxury for me.
 

remist17

Shohin
Messages
369
Reaction score
3
Location
South Central PA
USDA Zone
6B
Use the opposite proportions and you may have sucess. The amount of organics in bonsai soil should always be less than the non-soil ingredients.

FWIW, the notion that you have to pay a premium for "the best" bonsai soil is false. There is a very happy medium between expensive and cheap. Bagged double line Akadama is VERY bag expensive. Last two gallon bag I saw in a bonsai nursery was $45. If you can't find it locally (and you probably aren't going to, since its usually carried only by specialty high-end nurseries) you can add in another $20-$30 for shipping per bag.

I've been using Haydite, crushed granite, crushed quartz sand (swimming pool filter sand), baby orchid bark and composted pine bark in various combinations for 20 years. Those mixes have been more than adequate. Avoid vermiculite. It's too light to hold plants in a container.

FWIW, I have also used Akadama--the expensive, double line high-fired kind. It doesn't break down and it works very well, BUT, I also have to buy groceries and feed my kid, so it's an uncessary luxury for me.

Great thanks for the information. The Turface, Stable dry (like haydite) and bark is what I found in the area. I understand that you get what you pay for but right now this is what we can afford. I know many people look down at me for not using improted correct material but again putting food on the table for my family and keeping the lights on is the primary goal. Extras is the money I used for this.
Can anyone advise if the reverse of what I posted is correct or should they be adjusted?
 
Top Bottom