Maple disease/repotting/fungicide questions

[coh]

Hey everyone,

I have a maple that has some kind of disease - fungal or bacterial, not sure but here is a photo:



I've never had anything like this on another tree. Basically, this is a tree I purchased last fall from a well known grower. It is a kiyohime, cutting grown. It seemed fine, I don't remember noticing any blemishes on the trunk when I obtained it or when I repotted it last month. However, the other day I noticed the new foliage on half the tree was looking disfigured and wilted, and upon further examination saw the black/brown discolored area on the lower trunk, extending up into one of the branches. The area is not soft but is oozing some dark liquid (you can see one spot in the photo).

This looks like it could be pseudomonas to me and is probably not curable, though admittedly it is difficult to definitively identify these kinds of diseases.

Anyway, I contacted the seller and was told the following:

"Did you treat with fungicide when potting? Cutting grown maples are highly susceptible to fungal problems when cutting roots. You should treat immediately with fungicide and it should turn around. You may loose that branch."

I don't recall ever seeing the advice to treat maples or any tree routinely with fungicide when repotting and am wondering if anyone here does that? MACH5, Brian, Adair, anyone else? I do sterilize my tools in between trees and as I said, I've never had an issue like this on any other tree...including a number of cutting grown or layered maples.

I think this tree is a goner but would like to avoid this kind of problem in the future. I have no idea if the tree arrived with a latent infection, or if it was acquired during the repotting process.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Jester217300]

Looks like pseudomonas to me. I'd trash the tree. It probably won't survive and it's a risk to the rest of your garden.

 

[JudyB]

I've never heard of that either, about cutting grown trees being more susceptible. I've never had this sort of issue, and I don't treat anything when repotting as a general course of action. Sorry about the tree, it does not sound good for it.

 

[sorce]

Quarantine stat!

Sorce

 

[Dav4]

I got a similar response many years ago at the beginning of my palmatum fetish. I purchased 10-12 2 yr old grafted dwarf cultivars from a specialty nursery out on the west coast. Within 2-3 d of receiving them, at least two of them wilted and kicked the bucket. I called and was told they're very prone to fungal infections...and I didn't cut any roots. Any way, the recommendation to tx with fungicide could be good advice or it could be a canned response. This spring, I lost 2 out of 3 Kashima cuttings I re-potted, again, without cutting any roots. Vigor is everything, and messing around with dwarf cultivars that are inherently less vigorous seems to be a bigger issue. I had a bunch of 1 yr old layered Shishigashiras last spring...they were aggressively root worked like I have done with regular palmatums (big mistake), pushed very weakly, developed the bark lesions you have...and all but one- I think 5 of 6- are dead...the other is in the ground deciding if it wants to live. Your tree may or may not have a fungal issue, and it may or may not have been related to it's re-pot. Good luck with it.

 

[coh]

Thanks for the responses. Dave, I'm generally more careful with the dwarf and specialty cultivars. I have a couple that I just layered last year (coral bark/sango kaku, though not sure if that one is really considered dwarf, and shishigashira). I'm not planning on touching the roots of either for at least a year or two, until the top growth has become nice and vigorous. So far, so good. I have another kiyohime from Brent Walston that is doing fine, a bunch of arakawas including two which I brutalized this month (chopped the root systems back by half so I could join two trunks into a single twin trunk planting). We'll see how they all do.

So far no one says they treat with fungicides when repotting. I'm still interested in responses from some of other "long timers" - MACH5, BVF, Markyscott in particular.

Tree in question is now in quarantine, the problem is it was sitting with the "general population" until I noticed the problem. And it spent the winter in one of my enclosures in close quarters with a bunch of other trees. I think in the future any fall acquisitions will get wintered separately, just in case.

I suspect there is nothing I can do to save this one, since the infection has already progressed well into the trunk and a major branch. Plus, we don't know if it's bacterial or fungal, and I probably can't even get any chemicals strong enough to stop an in-progress infection. Need to look into that but I'm not optimistic.

Chris

 

[Jacos]

To me this looks like Verticillium fungus infection?

 

[Paradox]

@GrimLore had some issues with pseudomonas, maybe he can ID.

If it is, burn the tree before it infects everything else and it will if you dont do something

 

[MACH5]

Chris as Sandy mentioned, this may be indeed the bacterial infection pseudomonas syringae. Very similar to verticillium wilt but not deadly. It hopefully is that and not verticillium which there is no cure for and will kill the tree.

This usually happens in cold and wet weather typical of northern springtime. Keep your tree dry and don't let it stand in rain. Michael Hagedorn recommends either Phyton 35 or ZeroTol. I had two cases of it and was able to resolve using ZeroTol. The disease will kill some areas of the tree but not necessarily the entire tree which is the good news.

 

[GrimLore]

I have a maple that has some kind of disease - fungal or bacterial, not sure but here is a photo:

The only way I could verify Pseudomonas syringae was by taking samples to the Agri Center and having soil testing done. It resides in the soil and is normally the result of odd Spring weather coupled with less then perfect land drainage. The usual pattern in this region would be a normal Winter with what seems to be an early wet Spring(warm and wet) followed by a return to normal Winter weather. I underlined the symptoms all of my plants when it occurred here. I first noticed the buds on everything seemed to have stalled and from there it was all downhill.

Plant Symptoms Caused by Pseudomonas syringae

A variety of symptoms are associated with woody plants infected by Pseudomonas syringae pv. syringae. Symptoms and symptom development depend on the species of plant infected, the plant part infected, the strain of Pseudomonas syringae, and the environment. More than one symptom can be simultaneously on a single plant.
•Flower blast: flowers and/or flower buds turn brown to black.
•Dead dormant buds, common on cherries and apricots.
•Necrotic leaf spots (entire clusters of younger, expanding leaves may be killed on filbert trees).
•Discolored and or blackened leaf veins and petioles resulting from systemic invasion and infection.
•Spots and blisters on fruit.
•Shoot-tip dieback, which appears as dead, blackened twig tissue extending down some distance from the tip (very common on maples and other seedlings).
•Stem cankers: depressed areas in the bark, which darken with age. A gummy substance often exudes from cankers on fruiting and flowering stone fruits (this symptom is referred to as “gummosis”). If cankers continue to enlarge, they may girdle the stem and subsequently kill a branch or the entire plant. IF the outer tissues of the canker area are cut away, the tissue underneath shows a reddish brown discoloration. This discoloration may also occur as vertical streaks in the vascular tissue.

Now the part that initially confused me the most was it all started in the soil in the yard, not in the pots but came to understand it spreads like any other bacteria. I landed up sending all of the plants to the landfill, removing a lot of topsoil, treating all remaining including fences, pots, tools, shelves, etc... All debris went into sealed bags including soil and substrate, again to landfill.

It occurred in a few large agricultural sites wiping out a lot of crops as well. I am doing another soil treatment as a preventative but I have since grown a bunch of "test" plants and the bacteria seems to be gone. In addition to all that a landscape crew is coming in this week to re-grade the lawn with proper slope and drainage. They will also bury some since added drain pipe, remove any remaining landscape cloth, mulch in and gutter all properly. Cleanup for me was a long term project but needed done...

Honest I cannot tell you if that is what that tree is suffering from but I don't think so if it is the only one and it was sheltered(not outside above dirt). I would look at it as and perhaps chalk it up to a root problem, fungal, not bacterial.

If it is Pseudomonas syringae I had success cleaning up the property with Agri-mycin 17 fungicide/bactericide. Ross Huneycutt @ Nufarm 919.244.4098 is a regional representative. It is not "user friendly" and requires VERY safe handling practices.

Grimmy

 

[coh]

It's kind of like trying to identify nutrient disorders. You know, standard chlorosis = iron deficiency...usually. However, when you start reading the symptoms of other deficiencies, you quickly find out there is a LOT of overlap. Same with fungal/bacterial problems.

I've read a lot of descriptions of various fungal and bacterial infections over the past few days. Looked at lots of photos. I haven't seen any descriptions that exactly match what I'm seeing. The trunk is discolored, but not sunken. There are a couple of ooze spots. Foliage on that side of the tree is stunted/wilted. The symptoms partly match descriptions I've read for pseudomonas, verticillium, phytophtora, and a number of other pathogens. Or, it could be a mixed infection which is common.

Fortunately (so far) it's only one tree, and a relatively young, small and cheap one at that. I don't want to invest a sizeable amount of $ in a chemical (or chemicals) that will probably not be effective, and that I'll probably rarely if ever use again. I will be checking out the local sources to see what is available but without knowing exactly what this is, it's like shooting in the dark. Will probably contact the local ag office, actually I should do that today.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

Chris

 

[GrimLore]

Will probably contact the local ag office, actually I should do that today.

If it turns out to be Pseudomonas syringae PM me. I have more of that chemical then I can use in a lifetime and can easily send enough for you to make a few gallons. Otherwise it will just sit in the shed.

Grimmy

 

[coh]

Update...tree is still alive, though I'm pretty sure about half of the top will be lost. The infection seems to have slowed or possibly stopped progressing. Hard to tell for sure, but in any case it has slowed and hasn't completely girdled the trunk (yet) . There hasn't been much additional leakage of dark liquid from the black area of the trunk.

I treated initially with copper fungicide but figured that wasn't going to do much since it's a contact fungicide. A member here (you know who you are, thanks!) was kind enough to send some agrimycin which is a systemic antibiotic. Then another member in my area (again, you know who you are...thanks to you as well) gave me some Subdue (a systemic fungicide) to try. So the tree has been treated 3 times with 3 different chemicals, two of which are systemics.

So far no evidence of other trees being affected. I did see an area of dark bark on another maple, but it looks to be from a previous season. Treated that one as well just to be safe.

Time will tell, I'll post an update later in the season. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Chris

 

[coh]

Another thread reminded me that I hadn't updated this one. Despite repeated treatments with the systemic chemicals mentioned earlier, this tree finally succumbed to whatever was causing the infection. It was a long slow process, the black discolored part at the base of the trunk spread laterally at a slow but steady rate. Once the whole lower trunk had turned black, all the remaining top growth died off.

I think I had mentioned in another thread that the grower was Mark Comstock. I also purchased 4 other plants from him at the same time - all were rooted cuttings of rhododendron kiusianum. None of those were repotted, but this spring 2 of them died back in a similar fashion and a third partly died back. The fourth looks OK but I'm thinking about trashing both of them just in case. NONE of my other trees have shown any symptoms at all, so I'm pretty certain they came with the infection. They spent the winter in a shelter with a bunch of other trees, including another kiyohime, and none have any symptoms.

I'm curious as to whether anyone else here has had problems with stock from Mark? If so, let me know...PM is OK if you don't want to post it for all to see.

Mark did offer to replace the trees but I'm not sure I want to go that route and risk my other trees.

Chris

 

[Paradox]

Sorry the tree didn't make it.
I had a small maple that started getting a black trunk. It was a cheap tree so I threw it and the soil it was in into the fireplace and the pot went into the recycle bin.

I have a kashima maple that I got at the MABS 2015 as a workshop tree that was from Mark. No problems with it.

In fact, I just left his place. My bonsai class just did our field trip with him to look at Pitch pines growing in the wild. Awesome hike and awesome trees on a hairaising cliff and ravine in the wilds of CT. I bought a yew from him.

 

[coh]

I know a lot of people have bought stuff from him on the facebook groups. Haven't seen any complaints, but I suspect people are hesitant to make negative comments on a public forum. Maybe I just got a couple of bad plants, maybe he had a bad batch, or maybe they did get infected here. I can't prove they came to me infected, but I think the evidence is pretty strong.

 

[MACH5]

Sorry to hear Chris. It happens unfortunately. I have two threadleaf maples form Mark and thus far they are doing fine.

 

[Eric Group]

I know a lot of people have bought stuff from him on the facebook groups. Haven't seen any complaints, but I suspect people are hesitant to make negative comments on a public forum. Maybe I just got a couple of bad plants, maybe he had a bad batch, or maybe they did get infected here. I can't prove they came to me infected, but I think the evidence is pretty strong.

That is the tough thug about buying and selling plants- One dies and everyone winds up pointing fingers at each other! I bought a couple small trees from Mark earlier this year. 2 Mikawa JBP, one azalea and one Kiyohime. They all looked fine when received, the Kiyohime had not budded yet, so I decided to repot, and the roots looked completely DEAD! Black in color, kind of dried and whithered looking, I just assumed it was a goner! But, I repotted it to a pumice based mix, left it and it budded out fine! It has sat without growing all year basically but it is still holding leaves and seems fine! No spreading black marks on the trunk... So I am just rolling with it assuming it will be OK. I think if it was sick, or if it was going to die it would have done it by now!

 

[coh]

Yeah, it's not my intention to bad-mouth Mark or anyone else. Things happen, trees get diseases, die, etc. I know a lot of people have purchased from him and I've seen very few negative comments. And it sounds like a number of folks here have purchased from him without any issues. So either I was incredibly unlucky and got a sick tree, or he had a small batch that was infected, or it got infected here. I just put the info out there (here) for completeness.

Hope your tree thrives going forward. Sometimes they can take a season or two to recover if there was root damage like you've described.

 

[0soyoung]

What are the chances your trees froze in transit? Might that be the issue?