Micropositioning bonsai in the garden; it matters.

[Clicio]

Well, I have this bench setup I've been setting for getting all my trees together; 85% of the trees are already there for quite some time.
It is Summer now in the Souther Hemisphere, and the average temperature is:
Peaks of 32ºC/ 89F and lows of 16ºC/60F up to now; it is going to get much hotter in January/February.
But it rains almost every afternoon.
After recording the positioning of the plants regarding the sun and shade (from some nearby trees), and watching them every day, I got some conclusions:
- The black pines(JBP) and red pines(JRP) and junipers (Kishu and Itoigawa) do better with sun all day long. No matter what.
- Tropicals like Jaboticaba, Pitanga, Chinese Fringe, Blackberry and Kinzu (Kumquat) also like the full sun.
- Surprisingly for some of you, BRTs, Calliandras and Japanese Quince hate the midday and early afternoon sun, so for them it's morning sun till noon and then dappled shade. Calliandras and BRT close their leaves if it is too hot, so it's a clue. Quinces wilt and some... die.
- Chinese Elm, Zelkova, Prunus Mume, the same. Early morning and late afternoon sun, but I think if well watered Prunus Mume takes the full sun with no issues.
- Now... Maples and Azaleas. Those do well in very early morning sun and dappled shade all day long. If they get the midday sun, the leaves dry in a matter of hours. Azaleas fare better than Maples if left in the sun a little longer.

So the point is, even all of them sharing the same not so big space and the same temperatures overall, if they are left in the wrong position on the benches regarding full sun/shade/wind/rain, they will struggle, thrive, grow like mad or die.
Regardless of the watering being appropriate for each species.
Anyone has the same experience?


Below a rough sketch of the two benches (one double height) and some stands in my garden, the trees and sun position along the day.
There are around 30 bonsai at the moment.

 

[leatherback]

Thx. Good to know BRT do not take full sun.
Happy I never get full sun, relatively speaking
Might be why my seedlings keep up with yours?

 

[Clicio]

Thx. Good to know BRT do not take full sun.
Happy I never get full sun, relatively speaking
Might be why my seedlings keep up with yours?

Yes, Iguess so.
We have discussed this matter before, Brazilian Rain trees like...
Rain.
Humidity (with no fungus, of course).
And temperatures between 15°C and 35°C.
But as they are relatively small when compared with most real trees from the Coastal Atlantic Forest, they get a lot of shade from the higher species in nature.
The ones I am still not sure of position are the Japanese Quinces, Umes and the Elms. I guess Elms like whatever they are faced with.

 

[Forsoothe!]

My benches are recombobulations of 48" square stairway landings that were thrown away by a construction company near my business. We shared a dumpster. They would put them out there and I would drag them into my shop and split them in two and add legs to make into two decks. It has worked well for me as I have created my own protection from mid-day sun under the center of the lower deck, or trees can be shifted towards the north side and get a little afternoon sun, or towards the south side and get mostly all morning and early afternoon sun.

 

[LanceMac10]

Raintrees might just be able to live on love alone....

 

[Paradox]

Yes I have seen where certain species want full sun all day as much as you can give them (Pines and Junipers) and others (Maples, azalea, Beech) seem to do better with morning sun and shade during the afternoon heat.

I think this is fairly common knowledge no?


Sorry if my response is a bit muddled. I am on antibiotics and they make me feel very tired toward the end of the day and my brain gets foggy so Im not good on detailed and super coherent answers atm....lol

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I only get direct sun from sunrise till about 2-3 pm in my patio. I leave all trees exposed to sun except maples. These are in full sun till temperatures get around 20C. After that I move them towards a more protected area where they only get maybe 2-3 hours of direct sun during the morning. Still adjusting though

 

[PA_Penjing]

This was the first year I really paid a lot of attention to the amount of sun in different areas of my yard and it made a big difference, duh. certainly funny the difference 8 feet (2 meteres?) can make in small backyard

 

[Carol 83]

I have noticed that my BRT's close their leaves during the hottest part of the day in the summer. I didn't think it was detrimental to them. Maybe I'll rethink their position this summer. I keep the azaleas, serissas and ficus on the east side of the house that mostly gets morning and late afternoon sun.

 

[kale]

@Clicio, genuinely curious if people in the southern hemisphere feel like the minority or does it seem down there like the northern hemisphere is the minority?

Also, I unfortunately don’t have good morning or evening sun, only direct afternoon. I wonder if the maple and azalea would do best with partial shade all day?

 

[Forsoothe!]

We in the north accept that our tropicals grow poorer than they would if we were in the tropics, etc., etc. If you are in the tropics you can't own JM or yew, etc., etc. We all have to accept our lot and those of us with crummy circumstances, be they apartment dwellers, in arid lands, or pick-your-malady just have to do the best we can. Tenacity is worth a lot. Not everything, but still people overcome, -surprisingly. The question should never be, "How do I do the impossible?" It should be, "What can I do anyway? Where do I have the edge?"

 

[Shibui]

It is a very good idea to get to know the preferences of the trees we grow and what conditions they prefer. Others have already mentioned there can be big differences in conditions in even a small garden. Adding shade structures or placing some on lower benches will alter the prevailing conditions and may make the difference between a tree struggling and doing well.
Fortunately most trees are resilient and can cope with conditions outside their optimum so we can keep many species without the exact copy of their natural environment. Some species, like Chinese elm, seem to have a wider range of tolerance and some a little less.
Most 'full sun' trees will still live and grow in partial shade but may not grow to their potential.
Many shade loving species can cope with more sun provided they get adequate water and temps are not too hot. Maples will survive with partially sunburnt leaves though that does not look so good to us.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Well, I have this bench setup I've been setting for getting all my trees together; 85% of the trees are already there for quite some time.
It is Summer now in the Souther Hemisphere, and the average temperature is:
Peaks of 32ºC/ 89F and lows of 16ºC/60F up to now; it is going to get much hotter in January/February.
But it rains almost every afternoon.
After recording the positioning of the plants regarding the sun and shade (from some nearby trees), and watching them every day, I got some conclusions:
- The black pines(JBP) and red pines(JRP) and junipers (Kishu and Itoigawa) do better with sun all day long. No matter what.
- Tropicals like Jaboticaba, Pitanga, Chinese Fringe, Blackberry and Kinzu (Kumquat) also like the full sun.
- Surprisingly for some of you, BRTs, Calliandras and Japanese Quince hate the midday and early afternoon sun, so for them it's morning sun till noon and then dappled shade. Calliandras and BRT close their leaves if it is too hot, so it's a clue. Quinces wilt and some... die.
- Chinese Elm, Zelkova, Prunus Mume, the same. Early morning and late afternoon sun, but I think if well watered Prunus Mume takes the full sun with no issues.
- Now... Maples and Azaleas. Those do well in very early morning sun and dappled shade all day long. If they get the midday sun, the leaves dry in a matter of hours. Azaleas fare better than Maples if left in the sun a little longer.

So the point is, even all of them sharing the same not so big space and the same temperatures overall, if they are left in the wrong position on the benches regarding full sun/shade/wind/rain, they will struggle, thrive, grow like mad or die.
Regardless of the watering being appropriate for each species.
Anyone has the same experience?


Below a rough sketch of the two benches (one double height) and some stands in my garden, the trees and sun position along the day.
There are around 30 bonsai at the moment.

Well and thoughtfully done. Should help make happy trees.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Duplicate)-:

 

[Clicio]

Raintrees might just be able to live on love alone....

A lotta luv!

 

[Clicio]

I think this is fairly common knowledge no?

Yes, I guess so.
But the topic is, moving them left or right, up and down, even by a few feet makes a huge difference.

 

[Clicio]

I only get direct sun from sunrise till about 2-3 pm in my patio. I leave all trees exposed to sun except maples. These are in full sun till temperatures get around 20C.

And I guess the Açores is windy, no?

 

[Clicio]

@Clicio, genuinely curious if people in the southern hemisphere feel like the minority or does it seem down there like the northern hemisphere is the minority?

Kale, I don't think I grasped the meaning of your question. What do you mean by minority? If you mean a minority of bonsai lovers, minority of protestants versus Catholics, minority of blond blue eyed people, then the answer is yes.
On the other hand an American WASP will feel like being a minority down here, so it depends.
As I have lived in the USA and in Europe, and never ever encountered any prejudices against me being from the southern hemisphere, I guess I never felt like being a minority.

I wonder if the maple and azalea would do best with partial shade all day?

Yes, I think so, at least in my climate that is hot and humid in the summer

 

[leatherback]

Kale, I don't think I grasped the meaning of your question. What do you mean by minority? Of you mean a minority of bonsai lovers, minority of protestants versus Catholics, minority of blond blue eyed people, then the answer is yes.
On the other hand an American WASP will fall like being a minority down here, so it depends.
As I have lived in the USA and in Europe, and never ever encountered any prejudices against me being from the southern hemisphere, I guess I never felt like being a

You are unique man! ALWAYS a minority

 

[Clicio]

We in the north accept that our tropicals grow poorer than they would if we were in the tropics, etc., etc. If you are in the tropics you can't own JM or yew, etc., etc. We all have to accept our lot and those of us with crummy circumstances, be they apartment dwellers, in arid lands, or pick-your-malady just have to do the best we can. Tenacity is worth a lot. Not everything, but still people overcome, -surprisingly. The question should never be, "How do I do the impossible?" It should be, "What can I do anyway? Where do I have the edge?"

I 100% agree with you on that matter.