First, apologies for not putting
J. virginiana in the initial post, 'ERC' there is vague, if not completely lacking transparency with the word
mystery in the thread title, potentially implying some kinda i.d. issue etc..
The tree you picture is nothing special. You could easily grow that trunk using a shimpaku whip in a couple years. And not have that leggy, spiky foliage to deal with.
If you say you are playing with this tree to learn how to manage the foliage for when you collect a nice one, I would say that even then there are alternatives. Grafting on better foliage to a trunk with poor foliage is relatively easy.
Now, if you have the time to mess with your ERC just for the heck of it, then fine. Personally, I would rather spend my time working on a piece of material that I know will eventually settle into a pleasing image.
Adair, thank you (and all) for your thoughts. Your trees and experience reflect your knowledge & I respect yours and others opinions greatly. I have missed several posts throughout the day having been way out in the country with family, so to maintain some fluidity, other comments within other posts may be addressed here without direct acknowledgement (basically everyone
).
To be clear, the purpose of this thread was to attempt to discover some useful means of making the qualities that make ERC a certified shit species for bonsai, into something perhaps more manageable (thus the mystery). Also, to understand the actual techniques that others have done with no success, or some... Also, to invite anyone to post their ERC and discuss successes and failures alike toward making predominantly foliage issues not such a mystery....all the while bearing in mind that these issues may be a pandora's box or biologically impossible to overcome. I believe I have read every ERC thread on the forum, have heeded and respect their contents, and partially (and reluctantly) made this thread out of not wanting to step on others toes.
This is the second year I have collected and kept this species, in addition to having less than two years of bonsai experience. I decided to stop collecting ERC this past early-spring, humbly accepting that it was a relative waste of time due to its problems and the availability of more suitable species. I gave away several of the ERC to friends who planted them in their landscape and kept four (three pictured above).
I do not think these four are anything to boast of or exceptional, but they do have some character, and have basically been ignored all year aside from watering. However, can a a shimpaku whip really have the bark, 2'' flare-1.25'' trunk (second tree of post one), and that devils pitchfork deadwood in a couple years, even ground grown? Again, i'm not bragging on this roadside collection, i'm just not sure of that assertion.
Basically, I am willing to experiment with these trees and if they die, so be it. There are thousands of them right out my doorstep as
@cheap_walmart_art alluded to. It is frustrating to see this predominant native juniper in such abundance (essentially only one here, thanks
@Leo in N E Illinois -I wasn't aware of the locality of others close by..and I really appreciate what you are saying with others like yourself here trying to save time and heartache). I don't want a white whale, especially if the meat is vile.
Should I kill these four trees through simple experimentation, I don't see momma Gaia striking me down for this one. That said, along slopes (of limestone especially) in TN there are some extremely gnarled ERC to be had, some of which I believe are very old. If at the end of the day it comes down to ERC foliage is truly a lost cause as so many other experienced folks assert, than perhaps a few of these true natural gems could be a worthwhile pursuit for bonsai if the grafting of other foliage is the endgame...perhaps not.
Bjorn released a podcast interview today with yamadori collectors Dan & Steve from Wyoming based, Backcountry Bonsai in which they assert, the most interesting finds (and least) are best left until utmost confidence in technique and survival is had. These are strong words I could not agree more with.
In addition to those new to bonsai, can those who have fought or fighting eastern red cedar and been compelled to stop or not, can you please explain what are the things you have done expecting to resolve or fix its issues. What extremes did you go to? Did you treat it like an established juniper bonsai for five years and take it off your bench?
Here is something I have done. The four pictured in the original post I stopped watering like my other trees. I only water the foliage and very briefly on soil surface (just enough to make de change color, definitely not run through). One of these four has developed scale foliage at the ends of branches. Could be nothing. I also want to starve them.
My hypothesis is that they do not prefer quills, can retain more water and nutrients in scale foliage, and depriving them of water and nutrients can force them into changing foliar morphology to suit biological requirements. This is not new. Has anyone else tested this w/ ERC?
ERC you bastard!!!
@GGB...thats whats up & what you said
Thanks