New Juniper...

buddhamonk

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ok it's not that new but it's new to me. I'm currently looking for ideas.

I bet Jason might recognize it...















 

reddog

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Very nice Manny! Best sign are the roots underneath. You'll have a lot of fun with this tree. Joe Harris, Mike Hagedorn or Dave DeGroot might have some good input for you.
 

Rick Moquin

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Nice material! It would have been even nicer if we could of had a shot of the entire tree from different angles though ;) along with detailed close ups.
 

buddhamonk

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Very nice Manny! Best sign are the roots underneath. You'll have a lot of fun with this tree. Joe Harris, Mike Hagedorn or Dave DeGroot might have some good input for you.

I might have Joe Harris take a look at some point...
 

HotAction

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Nice rough piece of material. It looks like this will offer plenty of opportunity to practice a variety of more advanced techniques. (the kind I've only read about) For you experienced folk, maybe you could explain some approaches you would take. For instance, which branches that we see have a possibility of being bent with proper technique. I know you can hollow out the heart wood, but how big a branch can this be used on. (i think i've heard of a couple different methods of this, channel and "inverse cone"???) And of course, you have to keep the species in mind. Well, I think I'm rambling, so if you know what I mean, I'm sure a lot of us are wondering, thanks for the help.

Most of all, have fun with this one and good luck.

Dave
 

grouper52

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Nice rough piece of material. It looks like this will offer plenty of opportunity to practice a variety of more advanced techniques. (the kind I've only read about) For you experienced folk, maybe you could explain some approaches you would take. For instance, which branches that we see have a possibility of being bent with proper technique. I know you can hollow out the heart wood, but how big a branch can this be used on. (i think i've heard of a couple different methods of this, channel and "inverse cone"???) And of course, you have to keep the species in mind. Well, I think I'm rambling, so if you know what I mean, I'm sure a lot of us are wondering, thanks for the help.

Most of all, have fun with this one and good luck.

Dave

I'm not REAL experienced compared to some others, but probably more so than not, so I'll say a bit.

It's always hard for me to render an opinion about a tree seen only in photos, of course, even under the best of circumstances, and especially with a wild tree. Typically, I kind of live with a tree for quite some time, sometimes years, sort of formally and informally studying it over and over again before I make a committed styling decision. This is especially true on a fine old piece of material like this one.

Unlike, say, Ponderosa pines, the trunk and thick branches on old junipers are seldom flexible enough for me to consider bending - even with benders, rafia and rebar, hollowing out the heartwood, etc. Others here may be more bold, however. :)

These trees are often impressive enough to me just as they are, such that I find it easy to work with what they present without such maneuvers. Removing branches and foliage that doesn't fit, developing new foliage in areas where it is thin, bending branches that can be reasonably bent - that's about all I attempt, except to accentuate the deadwood which often features so prominently.

It's probably no mystery that I'm a big fan of Dan Robinson's "Focal Point Bonsai Design", in which a deadwood feature, espcially a prominent one found down near the base - either natural of created - is so often chosen as the "focal point" on a tree like this one. The styling of the rest of the tree is then chosen to frame and accentuate that focal point, such that decisions about trimming and branch/foliage placement become more logical.

This tree has a very interesting feature of exactly this sort down at the basal crotch. It is visually striking, and tells something of the tree's age and history. It is the most obvious feature that could make this tree fascinating. It would, most likely, be my focal point. I'd look at it and study it over and over again, and over time make some decisions about how the remainder of the tree could be manipulated to draw the eye to that feature, how the branches and foliage could be designed to frame, point to, or accentuate that feature.

That's how I'd approach it.

It's a nice piece of material. Good luck!
 

mcpesq817

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I was looking at the latest issue of Bonsai Focus, and there's an article there of Peter Tea working on a juniper that looks very similar to yours. I immediately thought of your post when I started reading the article.
 

buddhamonk

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Mike's tree in the article is 1000 times better than this one :)

I wouldn't be surprised if they came from the same supplier here in Oregon but mine was picked from the "burn pile"
 

buddhamonk

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I'm not REAL experienced compared to some others, but probably more so than not, so I'll say a bit.

It's always hard for me to render an opinion about a tree seen only in photos, of course, even under the best of circumstances, and especially with a wild tree. Typically, I kind of live with a tree for quite some time, sometimes years, sort of formally and informally studying it over and over again before I make a committed styling decision. This is especially true on a fine old piece of material like this one.

Unlike, say, Ponderosa pines, the trunk and thick branches on old junipers are seldom flexible enough for me to consider bending - even with benders, rafia and rebar, hollowing out the heartwood, etc. Others here may be more bold, however. :)

These trees are often impressive enough to me just as they are, such that I find it easy to work with what they present without such maneuvers. Removing branches and foliage that doesn't fit, developing new foliage in areas where it is thin, bending branches that can be reasonably bent - that's about all I attempt, except to accentuate the deadwood which often features so prominently.

It's probably no mystery that I'm a big fan of Dan Robinson's "Focal Point Bonsai Design", in which a deadwood feature, espcially a prominent one found down near the base - either natural of created - is so often chosen as the "focal point" on a tree like this one. The styling of the rest of the tree is then chosen to frame and accentuate that focal point, such that decisions about trimming and branch/foliage placement become more logical.

This tree has a very interesting feature of exactly this sort down at the basal crotch. It is visually striking, and tells something of the tree's age and history. It is the most obvious feature that could make this tree fascinating. It would, most likely, be my focal point. I'd look at it and study it over and over again, and over time make some decisions about how the remainder of the tree could be manipulated to draw the eye to that feature, how the branches and foliage could be designed to frame, point to, or accentuate that feature.

That's how I'd approach it.

It's a nice piece of material. Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback - that's what I was thinking of doing...not much heavy bending...
 

buddhamonk

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Here's an update...I cleaned up the foliage, selected the main branches, picked a front and cleaned up the deadwood

some questions:

1) layer or not layer the opposite branch... I'm itching to get rid of it. Any value in layering it? How hard is it on RMJ? How long would it take on a Yamadori?

2) As you can tell from the trunk pictures - underneath what I thought was live tissue is actually dead (likely due to the collecting process and the fact that there's is no root on that side. I started removing the bark all the way to the white wood but then figured - I will never be able replicate the texture of the natural deadwood that's been exposed to wind, rain and snow for hundreds of years... what should I do???













Here are the pictures of the branch to be layered or....



 

JTGJr25

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Its really difficult to give an opinion on whether or not to remove a branch without a picture of the entire tree at multiple angles. The closeup shots are nice but for advice on styling the whole tree needs to be seen.

Also, if this tree is new to you, maybe it is best to let this tree settle in to its new location before you do anything. Take this down time to study it as Grouper52 had said and find the best design that you can. Patience is needed even though I know you don't want to be. You don't want to regret removing something down the road that could have been used in the design.

Tom
 
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buddhamonk

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my bad - I wasn't explicit enough...

The branch has to go - so it's either going in the trash or it gets layered. I'm just wondering if the branch itself is worth layering and how hard it is to do on a RMJ
 

JasonG

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Its really difficult to give an opinion on whether or not to remove a branch without a picture of the entire tree at multiple angles. The closeup shots are nice but for advice on styling the whole tree needs to be seen.

Also, if this tree is new to you, maybe it is best to let this tree settle in to its new location before you do anything. You don't want to regret removing something down the road that could have been used in the design.

Tom

I agree Tom, however the tree is ready to work on and doesn't need to settle in to anything. It has been in his area for quite a while and is already adjusted to our climate.

my bad - I wasn't explicit enough...

The branch has to go - so it's either going in the trash or it gets layered. I'm just wondering if the branch itself is worth layering and how hard it is to do on a RMJ

Hey BM!

I think Tom is right here....we need to see a picture of the entire tree. With that said, I think the branch in question might need to go as well, BUT it can be bent around to be incorporated into a new design.
What are your plans with this tree? Can you give us a rough idea or virt as to your plans? As for the layer you would be better off grafting roots vs a layer.

See ya, Jason
 

buddhamonk

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Thanks for the reply Jason.

First picture shows the front - the angle will be different and more upright.

When grafting roots - would you use shimpaku or is RMJ better?



Tom,

Yeah the tree was collected in 2008 and is very well established. The previous pictures show the crazy amount of roots growing from the bottom of the container.

Manny
 

october

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There seems to be 2 very workable styles here.. You could go with a cascade. You would need to tilt the tree down then chop it off right after that thick first branch.You could also go for and informal upright style. Here is what I see. The red is where I would chop it.. Forgive my crude highlights:)

Rob



 

october

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Did not see the update until after I posted. It is coming along nicely...

Rob
 

buddhamonk

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Thanks for the virtual - I appreciate the time it took to come up with it.

here's what I'm shooting for...

 

HotAction

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Is there any live foliage on these branches? I prefer the taper of the trunk in this direction, but can't make out if it is live or dead in that area. I like both virts from october as well as yours, and I think this has a bright future.

Dave
 

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JasonG

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Budda, I think you could even stand up to the right a bit and still be a better tree. Seeing in person would really help though...I know I have seen it but I see hundreds and can't remember them all :)

The biggest key to a juniper is deadwood/live vein relationship at the base. That determines the front every time. You can move branches and you can graft foliage if needed, but you can never duplicate the deadwood at the base. If one were to ruin or hide that feature then you might as well throw it away and get another hobby, lol!

Always allow the deadwood, live veins and trunk movement set the tone for junipers Period. Everything else can be moved or fixed.

Ok, my 2cents has been added, lol! You should keep this alone till Ryan gets back in March and work on it with him......

See ya!
 

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