New to Bonsai and I have a few questions I need clarified.

[Jered]

So guy's I am new, new like I am going to buy supplies tonight new lol. So this is something I have interested in for a long time, I am finally just going to pull the trigger on it. I have done quite a bit of reading but as well all know reading doesn't always mean you will be good at the application. So I have a few questions I hope some more experienced people will help answer them.

So my first question is I want to take some cuttings from my evergreen holly bush and attempt to bonsai them. So my question is I have seen people state to use a soilless growing medium for cuttings, so how do they get nutrients?

Should I really use a soilless medium with Bonsai in general?

Do I start a bonsai in a larger pot and gradually move it down to more of a tray type pot?

Do I need to put a bag over cuttings?

If I use soilless growing medium how often do they need fertilizer?

I am been watching Nigel Saunders on youtube he really seems to know his stuff, but sometimes I see him trim a root ball to almost nothing is that ok? Everything I read has stated to cut no more than 1/3 off at a time.

Sorry for all the questions at once I just really want to start off right.

Thank you for your time and answers I really do appreciate it.

Oh also I really wanted to try my hand at bonsai with an Easter White Pine, we have them EVERY where in Georgia I probably have 10-15 in my backyard ranging from 1 year- to 30+ years old. Can I just transplant a 2-3 year old specimen and start to train it?

 

[BonsaiMobius]

Hey Jered, welcome to bonsai! I was in your shoes a few years ago and really wanted to start out right and read and read and ask specific questions and I think that was very valuable. However, as I have learned more about bonsai I have realized that because bonsai sits at the intersection of horticulture/science and art, it can be an incredibly complex subject and it feels like the more you learn the more you realize there is to learn. So I guess what I am trying to say is that there are not clear answers to most of your questions, in most circumstances it is very nuanced and situation and species dependent.

"So my first question is I want to take some cuttings from my evergreen holly bush and attempt to bonsai them. So my question is I have seen people state to use a soilless growing medium for cuttings, so how do they get nutrients?"

I have never dealt with evergreen holly cuttings so I will let other more experienced members speak to your first question. But a soiless growing medium across all cuttings is one of those things where different species react differently. Some species you can cut them at the base and stick them in a pot of water and they will root, others perform very differently.

"Should I really use a soilless medium with Bonsai in general?"

Again it depends on the species and I am not 100% sure what you mean by soilless medium. But for most of my trees I use a 1-1-1 mix of akadama, lava rock, and pumice. For my azaleas, which prefer a more acidic mix, I use kanuma.

"Do I start a bonsai in a larger pot and gradually move it down to more of a tray type pot?"

It depends what you are trying to accomplish. It is common to start trees in the ground and keep them there for many years before transferring to a training pot and eventually a bonsai pot.

A lot of people use anderson flats (which are grow boxes with good aeration) to grow out their trees. Typically once a tree goes in a bonsai pot, it will not gain very much more girth.

"If I use soilless growing medium how often do they need fertilizer?"

That is a species/health/developmental stage dependent question but a baseline is once a month during growing season.

"I am been watching Nigel Saunders on youtube he really seems to know his stuff, but sometimes I see him trim a root ball to almost nothing is that ok? Everything I read has stated to cut no more than 1/3 off at a time."

It depends on the species and the time of year done. Some species can take much more than others.

On a final note, I would really recommend checking out Ryan Neil, Boon, and Bjorn Bjorholm. They are all great bonsai experts and have online presences.

Ryan Neil has bonsaimirai.com which is an excellent resource and I highly recommend subscribing and going through their archive and watching their weekly stream.

Bjorn Bjorholm has a couple courses available for purchase on bonsaiempire.com which I found to be very valuable when I was starting.

Boon also has online videos which you can rent/purchase which are very good. https://bonsaiboon.vhx.tv/products

 

[Adair M]

Nigel Saunders is a Canadien who does primarily tropical trees. Does that make sense to you? Me neither.

I agree that Ryan, Bjorn, or Boon would be far, far better to learn from.

I see you’re in Georgia. I will be teaching a class on Pine fall maintenance and juniper fall work this Saturday at Plant City Bonsai in Clermont, Ga. There’s two sessions, morning and afternoon.

Even if you don’t want to do the workshop, stop by and have a listen. The information I give is whole quantum leaps better than that drivel Nigel does. It’s like drinking from a fire hose!

 

[MichaelS]

The information I give is whole quantum leaps better than that drivel Nigel does. It’s like drinking from a fire hose!

OOOh harsh!....But I completely agree. He should stop. It's embarrassing.

 

[Stickroot]

Nigel Saunders is a Canadien who does primarily tropical trees. Does that make sense to you? Me neither.

I agree that Ryan, Bjorn, or Boon would be far, far better to learn from.

I see you’re in Georgia. I will be teaching a class on Pine fall maintenance and juniper fall work this Saturday at Plant City Bonsai in Clermont, Ga. There’s two sessions, morning and afternoon.

Even if you don’t want to do the workshop, stop by and have a listen. The information I give is whole quantum leaps better than that drivel Nigel does. It’s like drinking from a fire hose!

LMAO! Thanks @Adair M that was a nice giggle!
I stumbled on one of his videos once and got the impression he is living and making videos in an alley. Very bizarre!

 

[Adair M]

LMAO! Thanks @Adair M that was a nice giggle!
I stumbled on one of his videos once and got the impression he is living and making videos in an alley. Very bizarre!

The first time I saw one of his videos, I thought it was a parody of a Bob Ross painting demo! Then I saw there were a bunch of them! OMG!!!

 

[j evans]

Welcome, be prepared for fun, good information and some good ribbing.

 

[sorce]

Nigel Saunders is Happy as shit!

Enjoying his trees.

They live.

And he does shit people say can't be done.

People first.

Bonsai as they wish.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[flyinmanatee]

Welcome Jered, just been on bnut a few months and gathered a ton of knowledge and ideas via the vast majority not driven by a pubescent need to denigrate others. Manners maketh man, just sayin.

 

[Adair M]

Welcome Jered, just been on bnut a few months and gathered a ton of knowledge and ideas via the vast majority not driven by a pubescent need to denigrate others. Manners maketh man, just sayin.

I don’t have any pubescent needs...

But for someone new to bonsai, it’s important that they learn from someone good, rather than a guy who enjoys making sticks in pots!

 

[sparklemotion]

I'm also a fan of Nigel Saunders, but as I've learned more about this hobby, I definitely see the ways in which he is... Unconventional.

The Bob Ross comparison is apt though... He makes happy little trees and encourages me to do the same.

Given how new you are Jered, some starting resources that I recommend are: bonsai4me.com... Read all the basics/general stuff.

Reddit.com/r/bonsai - read the wiki page for beginners. Take a lot of what they say you *must* do with a grain of salt (they are going for the lowest common denominator, since they are the first and last stop for a lot of "why is this juniper with the glued in rocks that I bought at the mall and keep on my coffee table dying" type of newbies.

Take it slow and don't be in too much of a rush to get trees in bonsai pots. But, trees literally grow on trees, so if you want a tree in a tiny pot, go for it... Preferably on something cheap,because you'll probably kill it. Which is OK.

Don't mess with any one tree too often. If you want to fiddle with your trees and they aren't ready, go buy another tree.

Good luck, and welcome.

 

[jeanluc83]

The best sites for those starting out is Evergreen Gardenworks. Read all the articles then read them again.

An important point that beginners need to understand: trees are not grown up into bonsai but cut down from larger trees into bonsai. Just that one fundamental idea will bring you far.

 

[rockm]

As said before, your questions have many answers.

First, skip the cuttings. They are an avenue to basically nowhere as far as learning bonsai goes. Holly is not a great bonsai subject even if the cuttings are "free." They will be unworkable (if they live) for a decade or so. During that time you will simply grow them out to suitable size for bonsai work. The first point of making a bonsai starts with the first four or five inches of a plants trunk. If it is spindly and nondescript, that's mostly the bonsai you will wind up with. The best bonsai are started from larger, more mature trees that are cut down to bonsai size with branches regrown. Suitable starting material isn't cuttings or seedlings. It is older nursery stock. Start there.

Skip Nigel. He's not all that great even if he's happy doing what he does. The criticism of people who point that out is shortsighted. Learning crap makes you do crap, sometimes for years until you learn better. "Unconventional" in bonsai is often used by people as an excuse for not making great trees. Not saying Nigel is that, but expand your pool of online videos. Many are just plain junk. Some are pretty good.
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/bonsai_videos?videoid=58
http://plantcitybonsai.com/http://plantcitybonsai.com/
http://plantcitybonsai.com/

What Nigel does is pretty much what you can learn much better first hand at a local bonsai club. You will learn vastly more if you learn in person with someone who knows what they're doing. Take Adair up on his offer. Just go and watch.

White pine makes crappy bonsai, it makes very difficult material even for advanced bonsaists. I would also doubt that that far south that those pines in your yard are Eastern White Pine--unless they were planted as landscaping material. They are more likely longleaf or yellow pine, but still difficult bonsai material.

The soil stuff is a can of worms with everyone having different opinions. However, by and large, "soilless" mixes have become the standard basic for bonsai these days.

One last thing, don't buy the argument that collection is a good way to begin bonsai. It's not. It can be a big problem, as a beginner, you don't yet have an understanding of WHY to collect a tree other that its "free." It ain't free and you will probably wind up killing anything you collect at this point for a long list of reasons. The best way to start is to get your hands dirty modifying already containerized nursery stock. Start with any kind of elm. Conifers (pines and junipers) are not as forgiving and can be frustrating for beginners.

 

[rockm]

As said before, your questions have many answers.

First, skip the cuttings. They are an avenue to basically nowhere as far as learning bonsai goes. Holly is not a great bonsai subject even if the cuttings are "free." They will be unworkable (if they live) for a decade or so. During that time you will simply grow them out to suitable size for bonsai work. The first point of making a bonsai starts with the first four or five inches of a plants trunk. If it is spindly and nondescript, that's mostly the bonsai you will wind up with. The best bonsai are started from larger, more mature trees that are cut down to bonsai size with branches regrown. Suitable starting material isn't cuttings or seedlings. It is older nursery stock. Start there.

Skip Nigel. He's not all that great even if he's happy doing what he does. The criticism of people who point that out is shortsighted. Learning crap makes you do crap, sometimes for years until you learn better. "Unconventional" in bonsai is often used by people as an excuse for not making great trees. Not saying Nigel is that, but expand your pool of online videos. Many are just plain junk. Some are pretty good.
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/bonsai_videos?videoid=58
http://plantcitybonsai.com/http://plantcitybonsai.com/
http://plantcitybonsai.com/

What Nigel does is pretty much what you can learn much better first hand at a local bonsai club. You will learn vastly more if you learn in person with someone who knows what they're doing. Take Adair up on his offer. Just go and watch.

White pine makes crappy bonsai. It makes very difficult material even for advanced bonsaists. I would also doubt that that far south that those pines in your yard are Eastern White Pine--unless they were planted as landscaping material. They are more likely longleaf or yellow pine, but still difficult bonsai material.

The soil stuff is a can of worms with everyone having different opinions. However, by and large, "soilless" mixes have become the standard basic for bonsai these days.

One last thing, don't buy the argument that collection is a good way to begin bonsai. It's not. It can be a big problem, as a beginner, you don't yet have an understanding of WHY to collect a tree other that its "free." It ain't free and you will probably wind up killing anything you collect at this point for a long list of reasons. The best way to start is to get your hands dirty modifying already containerized nursery stock. Start with any kind of elm. Conifers (pines and junipers) are not as forgiving and can be frustrating for beginners.

 

[Melospiza]

I'm also a fan of Nigel Saunders, but as I've learned more about this hobby, I definitely see the ways in which he is... Unconventional.

The Bob Ross comparison is apt though... He makes happy little trees and encourages me to do the same.

Good luck, and welcome.

This is a good description of his videos. I like watching them, but I realize that he is unconventional/non-conformative and not the right person for a beginner to follow.

 

[Jered]

Hey Jered, welcome to bonsai! I was in your shoes a few years ago and really wanted to start out right and read and read and ask specific questions and I think that was very valuable. However, as I have learned more about bonsai I have realized that because bonsai sits at the intersection of horticulture/science and art, it can be an incredibly complex subject and it feels like the more you learn the more you realize there is to learn. So I guess what I am trying to say is that there are not clear answers to most of your questions, in most circumstances it is very nuanced and situation and species dependent.

"So my first question is I want to take some cuttings from my evergreen holly bush and attempt to bonsai them. So my question is I have seen people state to use a soilless growing medium for cuttings, so how do they get nutrients?"

I have never dealt with evergreen holly cuttings so I will let other more experienced members speak to your first question. But a soiless growing medium across all cuttings is one of those things where different species react differently. Some species you can cut them at the base and stick them in a pot of water and they will root, others perform very differently.

"Should I really use a soilless medium with Bonsai in general?"

Again it depends on the species and I am not 100% sure what you mean by soilless medium. But for most of my trees I use a 1-1-1 mix of akadama, lava rock, and pumice. For my azaleas, which prefer a more acidic mix, I use kanuma.

"Do I start a bonsai in a larger pot and gradually move it down to more of a tray type pot?"

It depends what you are trying to accomplish. It is common to start trees in the ground and keep them there for many years before transferring to a training pot and eventually a bonsai pot.

A lot of people use anderson flats (which are grow boxes with good aeration) to grow out their trees. Typically once a tree goes in a bonsai pot, it will not gain very much more girth.

"If I use soilless growing medium how often do they need fertilizer?"

That is a species/health/developmental stage dependent question but a baseline is once a month during growing season.

"I am been watching Nigel Saunders on youtube he really seems to know his stuff, but sometimes I see him trim a root ball to almost nothing is that ok? Everything I read has stated to cut no more than 1/3 off at a time."

It depends on the species and the time of year done. Some species can take much more than others.

On a final note, I would really recommend checking out Ryan Neil, Boon, and Bjorn Bjorholm. They are all great bonsai experts and have online presences.

Ryan Neil has bonsaimirai.com which is an excellent resource and I highly recommend subscribing and going through their archive and watching their weekly stream.

Bjorn Bjorholm has a couple courses available for purchase on bonsaiempire.com which I found to be very valuable when I was starting.

Boon also has online videos which you can rent/purchase which are very good. https://bonsaiboon.vhx.tv/products

Hey Jered, welcome to bonsai! I was in your shoes a few years ago and really wanted to start out right and read and read and ask specific questions and I think that was very valuable. However, as I have learned more about bonsai I have realized that because bonsai sits at the intersection of horticulture/science and art, it can be an incredibly complex subject and it feels like the more you learn the more you realize there is to learn. So I guess what I am trying to say is that there are not clear answers to most of your questions, in most circumstances it is very nuanced and situation and species dependent.

"So my first question is I want to take some cuttings from my evergreen holly bush and attempt to bonsai them. So my question is I have seen people state to use a soilless growing medium for cuttings, so how do they get nutrients?"

I have never dealt with evergreen holly cuttings so I will let other more experienced members speak to your first question. But a soiless growing medium across all cuttings is one of those things where different species react differently. Some species you can cut them at the base and stick them in a pot of water and they will root, others perform very differently.

"Should I really use a soilless medium with Bonsai in general?"

Again it depends on the species and I am not 100% sure what you mean by soilless medium. But for most of my trees I use a 1-1-1 mix of akadama, lava rock, and pumice. For my azaleas, which prefer a more acidic mix, I use kanuma.

"Do I start a bonsai in a larger pot and gradually move it down to more of a tray type pot?"

It depends what you are trying to accomplish. It is common to start trees in the ground and keep them there for many years before transferring to a training pot and eventually a bonsai pot.

A lot of people use anderson flats (which are grow boxes with good aeration) to grow out their trees. Typically once a tree goes in a bonsai pot, it will not gain very much more girth.

"If I use soilless growing medium how often do they need fertilizer?"

That is a species/health/developmental stage dependent question but a baseline is once a month during growing season.

"I am been watching Nigel Saunders on youtube he really seems to know his stuff, but sometimes I see him trim a root ball to almost nothing is that ok? Everything I read has stated to cut no more than 1/3 off at a time."

It depends on the species and the time of year done. Some species can take much more than others.

On a final note, I would really recommend checking out Ryan Neil, Boon, and Bjorn Bjorholm. They are all great bonsai experts and have online presences.

Ryan Neil has bonsaimirai.com which is an excellent resource and I highly recommend subscribing and going through their archive and watching their weekly stream.

Bjorn Bjorholm has a couple courses available for purchase on bonsaiempire.com which I found to be very valuable when I was starting.

Boon also has online videos which you can rent/purchase which are very good. https://bonsaiboon.vhx.tv/products

Thank you for the in depth reply. I know my questions are really broad lol but the more I read I find out I have gotten more questions than answers. Thank you very much for the teaching references I will listen to them today while I am at work and see what I get from them. Thanks again for addressing my questions.

 

[Jered]

The first time I saw one of his videos, I thought it was a parody of a Bob Ross painting demo! Then I saw there were a bunch of them! OMG!!!

Yes Bob Ross what what I immediately thought also!

 

[twisted trees]

So guy's I am new, new like I am going to buy supplies tonight new lol. So this is something I have interested in for a long time, I am finally just going to pull the trigger on it. I have done quite a bit of reading but as well all know reading doesn't always mean you will be good at the application. So I have a few questions I hope some more experienced people will help answer them.

So my first question is I want to take some cuttings from my evergreen holly bush and attempt to bonsai them. So my question is I have seen people state to use a soilless growing medium for cuttings, so how do they get nutrients?

Should I really use a soilless medium with Bonsai in general?

Do I start a bonsai in a larger pot and gradually move it down to more of a tray type pot?

Do I need to put a bag over cuttings?

If I use soilless growing medium how often do they need fertilizer?

I am been watching Nigel Saunders on youtube he really seems to know his stuff, but sometimes I see him trim a root ball to almost nothing is that ok? Everything I read has stated to cut no more than 1/3 off at a time.

Sorry for all the questions at once I just really want to start off right.

Thank you for your time and answers I really do appreciate it.

Oh also I really wanted to try my hand at bonsai with an Easter White Pine, we have them EVERY where in Georgia I probably have 10-15 in my backyard ranging from 1 year- to 30+ years old. Can I just transplant a 2-3 year old specimen and start to train it?

Why holly?

 

[Jered]

The best sites for those starting out is Evergreen Gardenworks. Read all the articles then read them again.

An important point that beginners need to understand: trees are not grown up into bonsai but cut down from larger trees into bonsai. Just that one fundamental idea will bring you far.

Honestly, that makes a lot of sense, let the tree be a tree for a while then once established and healthy start the trimming/training process. I think quite a few get a smaller tree and cut and fiddle with it to much trying to rush the process IMO.

 

[Jered]

Why holly?

Well I have really vigorous holly tree in my front yard and I kind of like the look of holly. So I thought that would be nice to try and bonsai. I also really like the look of boxwood, I found a really nice wild boxwood I wanted to collect I think it may be a couple of years old it. What are your thoughts on boxwood?