New to the site . . . looking for suggestions on starter material and watering

[rockm]

Permatil is too chunky, the particles are too coarse for bonsai. However, they are similar in composition to turface (A granular fired clay product) and haydite in that they are not solid. The particles of all of these are porous and can hold onto water and nutrients, much like a sponge.

Granni grit is not porous. It will not hold onto water, but it is angular and sharp. That property makes it ideal to use with other particles that might not be so angular. Granni grit prevents smoother porous particles from sticking together and compacting.

Sand is a smaller particle than granni grit. It is also angular and sharp. It also prevents other particles from compacting, allowing drainage. It is also durable and won't collapse or break down over YEARS in a container.

Bonsai soil can be made of many different individual components--and those ingredients vary tremendously across the country and the globe. What all those soils and ingredients have in common is they DRAIN very well, but they're also constructed to hold onto water also-the porous soil particles.

It's counterintuitive, but the soil must drain extremely well, but also must be able to retain water at the same time.

The mix of all these depends on what you're using it for--more organic for deciduous, more grit and turface for conifers. Generally you want 60 percent of the grittier stuff and 40 percent organic for deciduous and 70 percent grit 30 percent organic (or completely non-organic) for conifers.

I have met a few folks who have no clue about bonsai soil even though they're growing bonsai. The best place to ask is bonsai clubs. The members generally know what soil works in your area and where to get all the ingredients. They've already done all the legwork. Some members might even give you some...

 

[mcpesq817]

Landscaping nurseries generally would be, but I figured a guy that did bonsai personally, that was giving me what he used, wasn't necessarily clueless. But who knows.

Take a look at his trees first, before you rely on his advice

 

[Specialkayme]

Take a look at his trees first, before you rely on his advice

That's a good piece of advice.

 

[mcpesq817]

That's a good piece of advice.

I suppose I can say the same about my advice

 

[Specialkayme]

I suppose I can say the same about my advice

Lol, I was thinking that . . . but didn't want to insult . . . hahaha.

 

[Specialkayme]

Just called up the local Tractor Supply Co., they don't know what Turface is, and while they had "Stall Dry" they did not have "Dry Stall."

The local Southern States store was confused by both questions . . . never heard of turface or dry stall.

 

[mcpesq817]

Try calling other Southern States stores. The closest ones to me don't carry those products, so I have to drive out to a more distant location.

When you pull up the stores by zip code, look for the ones that have the farm and feed and lawn care products. Granni Grit and Dry Stall will be at the farm and feed suppliers, and Turface should be at the lawn care suppliers. I'm lucky that one location carries all products, but a few others that I called had one or the other or none.

Good luck!

 

[Specialkayme]

Lol, all down the line, no Southern States store has heard of Turface, or Turface MVP.

Most John Deere stores supposedly carry it, just not in my area

Two had Dry Stall though . . .

And the hunt continues, lol.

 

[mcpesq817]

Some people I think use Oil Dry, which is like turface but it's used in automotive application to sop up oil and stuff. People disagree on how good it is as a soil component though, so you might want to do your research before you decide to go that direction.

I'd try local clubs and bonsai nurseries next. You can also buy pre-packaged soil mixes online like at bonsaimonk.com and dallasbonsai.com, but S&H adds a hefty premium. I wouldn't buy the fujiyama soil mix from Dallas Bonsai though - I didn't like it at all because it wasn't well draining and seemed to clump and have lots of dry spots in the pot.

 

[rockm]

Which kind of begs the question--how much soil do you need? Mixing your own yields over 10 gallons of the stuff, probably more...Might be more time and cost effective to just buy a few bags of prepared soil from bonsaimonk or from other reputable online sources.

Julian Adams in Lynchburg, Va. makes good soil:
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/websitelong_015.htm

Randy Clark in Charlotte also sells it:
http://www.bonsailearningcenter.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=14

 

[Specialkayme]

I'll keep looking.

I'm starting to see why the guy recommended what he did, lol.

 

[digger714]

They usually tell us what is going to be on next month during the meeting. So ill find out tomorrow whats on for next month. The club does what ever is usually done during the month, I would think still working on repotting, and maybe getting into grafting or layering. Everyone has different opinions about soils. Pretty much everyone ive met uses something a little different than the others. When you get into it more, youll even start using different recipes for different age trees, species, and using certain size pieces to make up the mix. You want it to hold water and nutrients, and release them into the tree. Turface stays pretty damp, but seems to cause more rootrot. Right now for an all purpose mix, i am using haydite, lava rock, and pine bark. This month i think we are going to repot some trees in lava rock, akadama, and pumice, equal parts of each, and use straight kanuma for the azaleas. A member of our club bought the products by the truckload for us to purchase at a very reasonable rate. It will take a year, but will be able to find out the difference from what we have been using to what the japanese artists use. Will let ya know.

 

[BONSAI GUY]

Grower near greensboro

Look up bonsainc.com

thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions, i do my best not to take criticism lightly.



I went to home depot and got the watering wand that they use in their nursery. Sure it probably isn't the best wand, but it was the best one i found near me. It does a good job transferring water from the hose to the soil i thought automatic watering systems were more common for bonsai users. But hey, i'm wrong! Now i know not to bother with that stuff, and work more on my skills in understanding the stress levels of the plants. Good to know.



Good advice. This is the kinda stuff i need to know. I was thinking that, but having no experience in the matter i wasn't sure.



I'm unaware of a local club, although i'll look harder. I've also already tried the local nursery, haven't found what i was looking for (no elms [classic beginner material] and no tree material in-between seedling and 8 foot tree). What exactly should i be looking for, size wise, at a nursery store? It's possible that it's there, but i just don't know what to look for.

Previously, i was looking for a good, healthy tree, that was small (between 2-4') with a great trunk and good roots. I wasn't concerned with branch size or location, as i know that can be moved and positioned. There wasn't much to choose from in the 2-4' range (almost nothing) that didn't cost over $100.



Funny you should mention that. I did get seedlings two years ago. Black, white, and red pine. At the moment i have a black and white pine in a container, and one black, one red, and three white pines in the ground (out in the woods behind my house). All are growing very slowly. But it's fun to watch. I was hoping for something a little more engaging though.



I have already moved the plants near the front door, to ensure that i check them on my way in and out the door. I hope i learn to get much better.



I was looking at humidity trays that are sold on some sites, and thought it might be a good idea. I was weary to purchase them and have it be another thing i got that i don't need. Do you think i would be better off just getting the waterings down, rather than getting the trays? Or are they worth it?



Thanks for the suggestions. I'll see what i can find i'm not too much of a fan of junipers, but i've been on the look out for a nice chinese elm (i've been told they are great beginner material). I thought trident maple's were more advanced material, while japanese maples were more beginner. Or did i just get that backwards?



So here is a good misunderstanding that i had. That's good, lets get these out of the way. I thought the bonsai plants needed substantially less water in the winter for two main reasons. 1) because it isn't as hot, the water that is available doesn't evaporate as quickly, and 2) since the plant is dormant, it's water uptake has slowed significantly. Both of these (as was my understanding) meant that instead of watering once a day, you only needed to water every three or so days. It rains (on average) once every three or so days here, so i didn't think additional watering was needed. Obviously i'm wrong. Can you help me understand why? Or how to correct it? Over the winter, should i water once every three or so days? Won't the extra water cause additional rot/ root issues?



Thanks for your honesty. I'm on it



i don't have a problem with the 1-3 gallon containers. I've only had issues with the smaller bonsai pots (that only some of the plants were in). Additionally, the first juniper died from my own actions. I learned from those. The others were due to a vacation sitter that ended up not actually being a sitter.

Are you suggesting that i move all of my plants into three gallon containers?

I can take pictures of what i have, if it would better help you in understanding my situation.



I actually put it in the first post. I also changed my profile 3 min after i made the first post. I'm in greensboro, nc. I'm unaware of my usda zone, but i realize i need to get used to that.



As i stated above, i'm unaware of a local club, although i am looking. I'm also unaware of anyone locally that can help. I've heard of a guy an hour and a half away in both directions (charlotte and chapel hill) but no one that i can "knock on the door." my guess is when i find a club, i'll find a "mentor."

i know nothing about bonsai soil. Do you have a suggestion on where i should start? I know it's very particular on the type of tree.



I'm willing to learn, and i have in no way attempted to claim that i'm experienced in this stuff in any way shape or form. I'm fully aware that i'm lacking some of the basic understandings. That is why i've come to this site, to learn.

I appreciate your honesty, but telling me to "read through the site" doesn't help me. I'm in the process of that. However, much of bonsai is hands on experience. I understand that i need to learn, and that's what i'm willing to do.

I never said that i had to work with anything in particular. I merely asked for suggestions. I understand that black, white, and red pines are some of the most difficult. All i was asking for was some "pine" suggestions, or other suitable types that would be good to learn off of. I like the look of the bw&r pines, but if they are too advanced for me, simply point me in a right direction. I've heard elms are good to learn from and junipers. In the past i havn't liked the junipers i've seen. They just remind me of "mall bonsai" and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth (not literally).

But, if that's what i need to do, so be it. Are you aware of a "soft" juniper that is forgiving to learn off of?



Again, i appreciate your help and honesty. I'm willing to learn, i just need some helpful pointers (ok, maybe a bit more than "some"). Maybe i do need to slow down a bit.

However, i don't feel i'm moving too quickly. In reality, i have four plants at the moment. One is a cork oak in a 8" pot that is being grown out. It is doing fantastic, and is in my house under a grow light waiting for a bit warmer temps (it came from ca, so i'm giving it time to transition to the colder temps). Another is an orange dream maple in a 10" pot, not meant to be bonsai just meant to grow out and enjoy the beauty of it. It is doing wonderfully as well, and i don't consider it a bonsai, just a plant (it chills with my 8' apple). One is a black pine that i got for cheap off ebay. It's survived my abuses, and i've learned alot from it. It is my only true "bonsai" tree. The last one is a red japanese maple that i got last weekend. I put it from a one gallon pot to a three gallon pot to let it get established a little more. It appears to be doing great. I also have a few other seedlings here or there that are really just to watch grow, nothing to train or repot or anything.

So, perhaps i should ask, is this more than i should be getting into at this point in time? I didn't think it was too much, but i'm new. So if it is, i get it, i'll deal with what i have. I'm looking for honest help to get me to improve. And that's all i want, a relaxing enjoyable hobby that i can improve in.

If my heart or my mind is in the wrong place, please let me know. I'm just trying to have a good time and learn something along the way.

Thanks for all the help, you've been very helpful.