Giga
Masterpiece
I don't think anything can be made out of this, I'll dispose of it for you 
New Trident
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
dlogs
Seedling
Great looking tree no matter what you do with it. Keep us updated.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
So I should "put it back in the ground and let it grow for 10-20 years?"
Those bulges wont just get worse if I leave those branches there?
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Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Over 1000 views (200+ in the last 2 days) and no one has any other discussion for this tree?
I guess it is just an expensive piece of crap and I should use it for kindling.
I guess it is just an expensive piece of crap and I should use it for kindling.
It's a nice tree. From the winter silhouettes, I would start removing bar-type branches, and work the branching back so that you start ramification closer to the trunk.
I question whether this tree has been grown in the ground for 10 years though. I live in a similar climate, and I can get trunks like that in 3 years in the ground. Unless, he was constantly hedging it back but there doesn't seem to be movement suggesting that was done.
I question whether this tree has been grown in the ground for 10 years though. I live in a similar climate, and I can get trunks like that in 3 years in the ground. Unless, he was constantly hedging it back but there doesn't seem to be movement suggesting that was done.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Work the pruning scars. They should have been done better. Do you have a knob-cutter? On the real ugly wounds. carve back the overgrown callous, then take your knob-cutter and really get in there. Leave a little bit of a raised portion in the center, the callous will heal to that point, hopefully making the wound heal evenly and not bulging out. Personally, I don't think its ready for a pot. Build a low, wide grow-box for it, let the roots run. That will help some scars heal and widen the base a bit. The low branches? If there not in your final design, remove them, work the scars, then let the next set of branches run. Stay on the top during the growing season, Tridents can get real top heavy if you don't. You might even have reduce the top a bit if you intend to let branches run to heal the scars. Oh, don't be so petulant, container growing demands patience and deliberate thought process. Plenty of ideas were presented thru some 3 pages, or do you just want a bunch of one-line responses like, "nice tree" or "chop it"? This tree has some potential, it's nice. Update when you can. Have a great holiday season!!
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
LanceMac10 said:
No, thats the point of my frustration, people (including myself) wanted to see it without leaves before discussing. I posted them and while it is nice to have people say "nice tree", I need constructive discussion.
All Ive gotten so far was mostly "nice tree" and "chop it". I know it isnt a $1000+ monster stump or elegant yamadori, but it isnt a 1 year old sapling either.
I would like some advice from people that have grown these things and know what to expect if certain things are or are not done. What are the options?
It needs to be repotted, I didnt mean into a bonsai pot. I have anderson flats to put it in it needs something that big.
Now Ive got 2 conflicting opinons, one says leave the lower branches and letit them growto to thicken the base, the other says cut them off. Which is the right one?
Thank you for the comment on the scars, I have read about re-opening the callus to promote further healing but never saw specifics on it.
Also, I guess Im frustrated at the fact that we are told to buy trunks and nebari.... I did that and this wasnt a cheap tree. Now I find out I still need to "let it grow" for many more years.
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
You have too many branches that are not helping the tree...some are even causing reverse taper and knob problems. Look at it well and study which ones need to go.
I still believe you will have 2 better trees if you airlayer. Just my 2 cents.
I still believe you will have 2 better trees if you airlayer. Just my 2 cents.
What do you see for the tree? Do you want it to have a fat base and fast taper? Or are you happy with the trunk you bought, and just want to start refining it? If you want a fat base, then yes, you need to grow it out more and let the bottom branches run to help thicken it up more. Otherwise, if you are happy with the trunk, start selecting final branches and work them back for ramification. Regardless, I think you need to start working on the scars, the nebari, and think about how to deal with some of the bulges you have that interrupt the taper line - either carve them back or somehow hide them. For example, see the bulge at the second set of branches off the base in the first winter picture you posted. I think your first winter picture is probably the best of the four potential fronts if you want to keep most of the trunk. The fourth is not very good when it comes to taper.
I agree with Dario that you have too many branches that are creating bulges and screwing up the tree's taper. I don't think i would bother with air layering it as he recommends, as I don't think the upper section would be all that worth it in the end. I also don't know that I'd chop it at that point either, as you will have essentially paid a lot of money for a tiny stump - unless that was your intention when you bought the tree.
Looking back at Dario's sketch, if you did want to chop the tree back, maybe consider chopping back one level higher than in Dario's sketch - chop it back to the second branch on the left which will be your new leader. You'll have to carve the chop down and to the right, but that might give you a nice small tree with movement. Frankly, the trunk above that point is not that interesting, as it suffers from being very straight and having lots of scars and bulges.
I agree with Dario that you have too many branches that are creating bulges and screwing up the tree's taper. I don't think i would bother with air layering it as he recommends, as I don't think the upper section would be all that worth it in the end. I also don't know that I'd chop it at that point either, as you will have essentially paid a lot of money for a tiny stump - unless that was your intention when you bought the tree.
Looking back at Dario's sketch, if you did want to chop the tree back, maybe consider chopping back one level higher than in Dario's sketch - chop it back to the second branch on the left which will be your new leader. You'll have to carve the chop down and to the right, but that might give you a nice small tree with movement. Frankly, the trunk above that point is not that interesting, as it suffers from being very straight and having lots of scars and bulges.
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Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Well, do you have a vision for this piece of material? Ask 10 people what to do with a given tree and you'll get at least a few different opinions on where to go because we all have preferences in style and how to get there. There really is no black and white answer. Personally, I haven't commented because I don't have much experience developing tridents. I do know that the advice given above is quite good and I'd start there. Good luck with the tree; it's a good one.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
A lot of people like to throw "air-layer" out there, regardless of asking the OP if they have any experience with the technique. It's a fairly straight forward process, but requires a bit of finesse, good horticultural knowledge and above all, patience. As a previous post mentioned, what do you want the tree to look like? I assume you like it how it is now? Air-layering puts you back at square one or two w/2 trees. The lower branches may be to rigid to move into the correct position as posited in a previous post if you were to air-layer. At least with the top part, you'll have some branching, but you will have to re-build the root spread. But you will get a nice root spread a lot quicker than the time it will take to heal the scare on the bottom section. So, if your happy with the general shape and proportions of the tree, remove those lower branches. While leaving them, and allowing them to run to build trunk thickness, will do that, but if you decide to remove them at a later date as they may not fit into your design plan, well, that's another scar to heal. Not what you want in an area you want to feature, i.e. bole and root spread. As for the person whom sold you the tree? Maybe he should be using a saw to remove large branches. When using a concave branch cutter, the cutting surface should be at a right angle to the trunk. Don't cut to the trunk, leave a little nub. Then work with your wen cutter. Taper the top and bottom of the cut, it will heal evenly.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
With Tridents, the simple act of letting the roots run will draw out the base of the tree. You don't need branches that low. Unless you air-layer, then leave them.
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
True and I am guilty of this...thinking it is very easy to learn/do.
I am a believer of being jack of all trades, having the most "tool" in your tool box. In this case grafting, layering, bending, wiring, carving, etc. are all great "tools" (skills) that we should all strive to have if we want to move forward.
I discourage going to someone do it for you. I like going to someone to teach you much more. If you can learn it by yourself...even better.
"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
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Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I have posted many articles here about how to handle tridents, I have posted even more, maybe three times as much on my blog about how to handle tridents.
I will show you what I do. I buy trunks. If I like it I buy it. I can grow branches in three years with good tertiaries already started in my growing seaon. Some will need four years but whats a year in the building of a good tree.
For some reason people think they have to deal with trees the way they buy them. Cut the freakin branches off that puppy and start over. They are too big up top anyway. Leave the two on the bottom and cut every single branch off the tree except two match stick size leaders up top. Do not let the top branches get past 6 pairs of leaves. When they get to pencil size, cut them back to a spur and grow new ones. All you are doing is keeping the top alive by drawing sap there.
Now the two down below, let them run, wire them and turn them up, it will save a month. Let them go to seven or longer feet tall. Do not cut them. When the base fills out and looks more proportionate, then you can remove them and start to build the bottom branches. Just the bottoms. keep the middle cut back. Let buds start but keep them under an inch long to keep the areas viable. You will be surprised at how fast the base will grow with those two branches down there 7 feet tall and nothing growing up top. It will grow and inch fatter in a year. It don't need to be in the ground either.
I purchased this from the recent convention last month for 150.00. Then I did this to it. There is so much to read on this forum from people that know how to do things, I don't have a clue what the problem is. Even if you have a personal problem with me the info is sound.
I will show you what I do. I buy trunks. If I like it I buy it. I can grow branches in three years with good tertiaries already started in my growing seaon. Some will need four years but whats a year in the building of a good tree.
For some reason people think they have to deal with trees the way they buy them. Cut the freakin branches off that puppy and start over. They are too big up top anyway. Leave the two on the bottom and cut every single branch off the tree except two match stick size leaders up top. Do not let the top branches get past 6 pairs of leaves. When they get to pencil size, cut them back to a spur and grow new ones. All you are doing is keeping the top alive by drawing sap there.
Now the two down below, let them run, wire them and turn them up, it will save a month. Let them go to seven or longer feet tall. Do not cut them. When the base fills out and looks more proportionate, then you can remove them and start to build the bottom branches. Just the bottoms. keep the middle cut back. Let buds start but keep them under an inch long to keep the areas viable. You will be surprised at how fast the base will grow with those two branches down there 7 feet tall and nothing growing up top. It will grow and inch fatter in a year. It don't need to be in the ground either.
I purchased this from the recent convention last month for 150.00. Then I did this to it. There is so much to read on this forum from people that know how to do things, I don't have a clue what the problem is. Even if you have a personal problem with me the info is sound.
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fredman
Masterpiece
Whatever you do please don't plan on dressing this pride Trident up in a skirt in the finish. Nothing more undignifying to make it look like a pine. There is way to many blushing Tridents out there.....
Just my personal opinion
Just my personal opinion
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Whatever you do please don't plan on dressing this pride Trident up in a skirt in the finish. Nothing more undignifying to make it look like a pine. There is way to many blushing Tridents out there.....
Just my personal opinion
That would be good if the grower had thought about that prior to letting this tree go. Such that it is, it will lead that way, but building a good rounded canopy will diminish a lot of that pine tree feel.
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fredman
Masterpiece
True. If it was mine I would layer at Darios bottom line and start again by building a true natural looking tree from the bottom. No need to pull down branches then...
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Heres the rub, I agree with you. I am not afraid to just behead a trident and start over. Maybe on a tree I purchased ten years ago that still looks like crap and I am tired of working on, then yes do something radical and change it up.
But this guy just bought this recently, like this year. has not really had a chance to do anything to the tree yet.
So it boils down to why spend good money to just hack the shit out of a tree to POSSIBLY make something out of it, or just purchase correctly the first time. In my photos above I just wanted the gracefull curve of the large trunk with fairly good taper. I was not buying it for the bush it looked like. My point here is that this tree has some big bulges on the trunk, and they are not going to get better by leaving the branches on there that caused the damage in the first place. Take them all off and start over. even if he decides that he wats a shorter tree, growing the tree without branches for a year or two with only the bottom will improve the taper in the trunk anyway.
To really help the forum to your vision it would help to post a picture of what you would like to see in the tree to keep it from looking like a pine. One can look all over the net and good pictures of maples that look natural are pretty hard to find.
