Newbie looking for help on collecting local pines

DreRega

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Hello everyone. I'm kind of new to bonsai. More like I'm learning how to ride a bike again after a long vacation from it. I live in Cape Cod Massachusetts and would like to collect a few small pines this spring(soon) to get accustomed to working with pines. I really would like to work with pines but don't see myself spending hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on Pines if I cannot keep them alive right away. My question is are there any particular pines here in Massachusetts that are suitable for bonsai. If there is anybody local here that could offer some advice I would greatly appreciate it.
 

Dav4

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Hello everyone. I'm kind of new to bonsai. More like I'm learning how to ride a bike again after a long vacation from it. I live in Cape Cod Massachusetts and would like to collect a few small pines this spring(soon) to get accustomed to working with pines. I really would like to work with pines but don't see myself spending hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on Pines if I cannot keep them alive right away. My question is are there any particular pines here in Massachusetts that are suitable for bonsai. If there is anybody local here that could offer some advice I would greatly appreciate it.
You are in pitch pine (Pinus rigida) heaven up there on Cape Cod. My folks live near the canal and Scussett Beach. There were numerous pitch pines growing in the sandy soil near their house that I lusted after but never got around to collecting (never asked the land owners permission, either, which is the first step...hint, hint:))
 

jeanluc83

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I have been doing lots of research on northeastern native pines. The three you are most likely to find are Eastern White Pine (Pinus Strobus), Red Pine (Pinus resinosa) and Pitch pine (Pinus rigida). White pine is pretty much useless for bonsai. I haven’t been able to find anyone using red pine. Pitch pine however is fantastic. Ryan Neil said that it is probably one of the best native pines for bonsai. There are a couple of fantastic examples at Elendan gardens in Bremerton WA.

From what I’ve read pitch pines can be trained using the same techniques used on Japanese Black Pines though with somewhat less predictably.

You should be aware that trees growing in sand tend to send out long roots. So be prepared to dig. Nick Lenz says that the best pines are found growing on rock outcroppings. I have also been told that they need a good recovery before they can be worked. Anything collected this spring will need 2-5 years. Younger material may be less.

Note that this is all based on what I have read. If I can get permission there are a few that I may go after this spring to get some real experience.
 

edprocoat

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Jeanluc, depending on your horticultural experience it may not be wise to collect nice material just yet. The first thing you need to do is get used to keeping them alive and healthy, then learn styling and wirng/trimming etc. techniques. Once you have all this down then collecting would be fine as you would have the experience to put towards the aftercare. I don't know about your red pines but many pines in the spring will bleed sap from the roots profusely killing them as they are starting to wake up and the sap is flowing. It would be cheap to buy a few starter pines from a nursery and learn on them for a few years to get the maintenance part down, it would be a shame to remove a nice tree and then lose it to bad decisions and inexperience. Many times in the spring state park services offer saplings to the public for free to take and plant at home even these would give you a great start on the learning curve.

Good Luck!

ed
 

Dav4

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I've only attempted to collect a older pitch pine once and was successful...mid summer, sandy soil and wasn't able to collect much in the way of fine roots. Killed it 3 years later due to overworking it/not knowing my ass from my elbow bonsai wise:mad:.
 

jeanluc83

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You are correct that I don’t have much experience yet but I guess how do you get experience without doing. My plan is to collect some lesser material this year. While that is recovering I plan to work with nursery stock. I also have about 20 Japanese black pine seedlings that I am growing out and some pitch pine seeds waiting to grow. I figure that having seedlings, collected material and nursery stock should start to give me a good base education in pines over the next few years. I do anticipate failures but I will learn from them.
 

DreRega

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So what time of year would be best to collect a pitch pine. I do plan on working with some nursery stock as well. I would much rather practice basic techniques with something free and save for a very nice piece of material a few years down the line. I am a bit limited on space so for now I am favoring smaller trees. There are a few smaller pines maybe around 1 to 2 inches in diameter with some interesting deadwood on them in a path right behind my house. They definitely have some bar branching but they seem young enough and there are not very big knots on them that I think it wouldn't be an issue. I'll try to get a picture of them in the next few days.
 

jeanluc83

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So what time of year would be best to collect a pitch pine.

Nick Lenz says that they can be collected any time the foliage is not soft. This would be early spring, late summer or early fall.

I don't know about your red pines but many pines in the spring will bleed sap from the roots profusely killing them as they are starting to wake up and the sap is flowing.

What pines does this apply to specifically? Everything I have read recommends early spring just as the candles are starting to move for Japanese red, black and white pines. Based on what Nick Lenz has written early spring is also appropriate for pitch pine. I believe mugo pines are better to repot in early summer but I don’t believe this is to prevent sap loss.

My understanding is the idea that plants “bleeding to death” when pruned in the spring has been largely debunked.
 

Dav4

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My understanding is the idea that plants “bleeding to death” when pruned in the spring has been largely debunked.

Correct. Plants don't have a cardiovascular system and don't bleed to death. A more important consideration is the proper timing of collection, and I'd go by Nick Lenz's advice.
 

Paradox

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I have sucessfully collected a number (@10) 0 and 1 year old pitch pine seedlings in May in my area.
I just scooped up the root mass and soil and put them in pots without bare rooting at all.
They need good winter protection. I had some die due to inadequate winter protection.
 

tmmason10

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This thread hits close to home, I grew up in Harwich. I have yet to start picking pitch pines from my parents house but have been experimenting with some growing along side their driveway. I was going to try and scoop on up this spring but haven't decided whether to take a seedling to train, or an older tree with nice bark. Where on cape are you located?
 
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jeanluc83

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I was going to try and scoop on up this spring but haven't decided whether to take a seedling to train, or an older tree with nice bark.

My vote would be grabbing a half dozen seedlings and 2 or 3 more mature specimens. I think it is a good idea to collect more than you need with the anticipation that some will not make it. Worst case, you have extra material to work with down the road.
 

Vance Wood

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This thread hits close to home, I grew up in Harwich. I have yet to start picking pitch pines but have been experimenting with some growing along side their driveway. I was going to try and scoop on up this spring but haven't decided whether to take a seedling to train, or an older tree with nice bark. Where on cape are you located?

Take the older tree, if you're going to be a bear be a grizzly. It takes time to develop the kinds of things you get from a Yamadori and when you are in a location where these kinds of trees are available to you it is outrageous not to take advantage of them.
 

DreRega

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I'm not to far from the bridges and the canal. I think I'm going to try and collect 6. Three younger and 3 older ones. I was planning on puttin them in folded 10 gallon smart pot( the larger ones) to help promote some good horizontil root growth.
 
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