Opinions wanted...

[A Random User]

So, as some here might know, I have started composing threads dealing with Fundamentals of Art in Bonsai, and have posted up the thread dealing with Perspective... which can be found here

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bonsai-art-shool-perspective.21466/

No, at the beginning of the thread I mentioned that I was writing and illustrating a book dealing with the various subjects of the basic fundamentals of art and how they relate to Bonsai...

So, my question is, that do to the time involved with the creating of a book dealing with all of the subjects, I am considering perhaps instead, just putting out smaller books regarding each individual subject. So, in the end... the subjects would be split perhaps into 4 maybe 5 books... and be more of a series.

Two reasons possibly for doing this would be obviously as had mentioned time involved... don't have a problem with putting the time in, however I still have life and paying bills etc. To deal with which would make the end release way off in the future and I am worried life will get in the way and it not get done...
As well, obviously would be I would be able to get the first one out quicker and in folks hands.

Second, I would be able to deal with and provide more space to the subjects... problem with obviously doing just one book, is that one has to take into consideration, the amount of space for each subject as to cut down the overall price involved.

I plan on for the moment putting these out by myself and covering the investment cost. I also, plan on trying to keep the prices as low as possible.

Just curious what everyone thought? I included the Poll, but of course any comments would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[sorce]

course any comments would be greatly appreciated

You sure?

Please keep in mind, I have been pondering my own business for years, and believe it or not, yours too since about a year ago.

If you say go, may I with no censorship or hard feelings....tell you exactly how I feel?

I will type well.

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

You sure?

Please keep in mind, I have been pondering my own business for years, and believe it or not, yours too since about a year ago.

If you say go, may I with no censorship or hard feelings....tell you exactly how I feel?

I will type well.

Sorce

I am not sure I understand what it is you are asking?

If you are asking for my permission to say what you feel? Than I think this would be a first here at the Nut! Lol!

I have been a proprietor pretty much my whole life, selling the product of Art I have created... not to mention, growing up in an Architectural Firm that my father created and owned. I have inquired into the reality of what I will be doing and understand fully what's involved.

I already have folks interested in obtaining the book. So, there are already sales to be made and folks wanting the info.

So, sure tell me your thoughts. This is why I posted the thread. I am sure some might not think this is a good idea, that's cool! Some didn't think selling sliced bread was a good thing.

 

[sorce]

I only gotta ask permission cause I still think Jomawa was misunderstood....
And I don't know exactly how you always get into it.....but it seems you are involved in the "beef" threads a lot, and I sure don't want that!

Truthfully, there's just a couple things that I don't know, that when brought up, can read hurtful, assholish, and know it all, I just have to establish we all understand that not the case.

I just like sharing.

I might run out of room....

So I will go into some long Seminole mindedness, of my own, in The next post.

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

I only gotta ask permission cause I still think Jomawa was misunderstood....
And I don't know exactly how you always get into it.....but it seems you are involved in the "beef" threads a lot, and I sure don't want that!

Truthfully, there's just a couple things that I don't know, that when brought up, can read hurtful, assholish, and know it all, I just have to establish we all understand that not the case.

I just like sharing.

I might run out of room....

So I will go into some long Seminole mindedness, of my own, in The next post.

Sorce

Thanks for the reply!
I am not going to get into a discussion over how folks act, or how one thinks I should handle it. This is not the thread for such a discussion. If one wants to discuss the matter, send me an PM. I would be more than happy to discuss it with you.
Thanks!

 

[GrimLore]

So, in the end... the subjects would be split perhaps into 4 maybe 5 books... and be more of a series.

I like the idea and say go for it - now where do I get my signed editions?

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

I say go for it. Would I purchase a book on the topic...most likely not. Nothing against you or if it were another author even. I just feel what you're trying to teach I have a good book well written and admired by many senior bonsai folk. That I see no reason adding to that topic.

My book...the newer version...nice hardbound large book well put together.

Principles of Bonsai Design
With over 500 photos and drawings, Mr. De Groot discusses aspects of art and aesthetics, traditional Japanese and Chinese styles, and new styles based on natural tree forms. Also covered are branch structure, deadwood features, initial styling, and container selection. A chapter on refinement is followed by chapters on display and collection management. Whether you're a novice or a skilled practitioner, this book will help you improve your bonsai

http://www.absbonsai.org/store/principles-bonsai-design

 

[Cadillactaste]

I would like to add...when writing your book. As a reader...an author loses me with more filler than content on topic.

Good luck with that book...

 

[Cadillactaste]

Thanks for the reply!
I am not going to get into a discussion over how folks act, or how one thinks I should handle it. This is not the thread for such a discussion. If one wants to discuss the matter, send me an PM. I would be more than happy to discuss it with you.
Thanks!

I must be on your ignore then...I sent you a PM and got no reply...food for thought.

 

[sorce]

I thought I could start it....

You sure?.......fu@cker.
But that @ symbol made that read condescending and not friendly..

You sure? ........Fucker.

Ahh.... My friend.

When you first posted about the book.....
I was like, "hope he gets an editor" just because of how long some of your posts are.
I love reading....and I totally want to get into them.....but they are sooo long, I rarely do. If course...it is the truth....I need more knowledge of proportion now...I would eat that up!
I think that, combined with how much shit you gotta add (as here), just so people don't start bitching, makes it harder..

So I believe a book may even do way better. And for real, from the beginning, I had it in my heart that you would accomplish it.

I have thought about no less than 6 of my own different businesses.
To clarify, I have never been 100% confident in any of my product to ask money for it, be it music, services, fish tank decor, etc. I just can't Bullshit, lie.
But recently, I have gained confidence in my skills and abilities to actually move forward....

Anyway.....to me.....there are thousands of ways to waste money, and thousands of ways to spend it to make it.
I always think of maximum profit.
But more importantly, NO overhead.

That Said, I wonder if finding a book on the subject already, and working with the original author, and an editor, to revise it as applicable for bonsai, may reduce overhead costs, possibly get copies sold to people who bought the original book, or follow that author.....and hell, anything to spread bonsai!

But then I think about books....
These people buy them from Amazon for cheap as Hell.....
I don't think the value of a real book is going anywhere. But dead...unfortunately.
Kindle....ebooks, blah, all to be considered.

1 book....in solid cover....would save you from paying for 2 covers, and all the hassle of publishing/copywriting 3 separate books. 1 book if anything.
However written....

So that kind of lead to me thinking about simple pamphlets.
As a "test" for the book, advertising it, or just advertising your services.

Here's what I don't know......

What happened to all the weeping trees and bent junipers?
Being how I am I wouldn't want to help if people bought these trees, and they die, and you simply keep selling dying trees to folks...please, I do not know, so don't take that the wrong way....I'm fucked up like that. Honestly, I'm surprised to see a lot of shit people buy and sell, cuz of how I am, it kind of makes me sick. Not to mention my sneaky suspicion that there are Respected vendors that put wire on trees that are shit, just to sell them for more than they're worth....you are SOOOO not these people!

Further and more joyheartedly spoken!
Your design and styling is well worth the money spent! More so than MANY.
And just being Florida kinda says they're alive, duh! I simply don't know!

So I assume, cuz I have gathered absolutely no sense of dishonesty from you EVER....that pamphlets, advertising a book and you, could be a better investment than a book straight away.

When I saw you off that BSC tree, that's what kicked off my thinking about your business. I was hurt, shocked, and highly intrigued all at the same time!

Remember when I told you, I see you holding down Florida.....
That's cuz, far as I know, aside from Carp, you are a different dude, that could hold a specific demographic of clientele down there. Maybe you and Carp team up even?

You're far enough away from any fresh from Japaners, so not to much competition far as a younger dude, coming to service clientele.

So I propose......if your wiring hands are as seasoned as they seem, and if you are prepared.

Make the 3 pamphlets....
Highly Condensed.
If you start writing like you do your trees,
Compact! You'll succeed.

On the back page of the pamphlet, or elsewhere designed, put your email or whatever, website, contact info, services offered. Etc.

Make a section that has a questionnaire, or a simple question, "would you Buy an advanced version of this as a book", and when they answer, enter them into a drawing for a pot or something...

Of course if the book gets printed, that will get edited out....while you still circulate the pamphlets for advertising.

Of course, this hinders on getting it into people's hands....which becomes the challenge....shows? Contacting other vendors you won't compete with, to hand them out free with their pots? Their tools?
Feasible.

Nationwide? If you can ship trees for sale out of Florida, and they have a good chance of living, otherwise, that business may dry up, or worse, start a bad reputation, which could kill everything.
Waste of overhead.

Maybe all down South?
Puerto Rico?
Shit...Cuba?

Target em. Get it in their hands.

I'd want to read a good review from a customer or 2.
You could draw everything else....
But a picture would be good proof too.

So Anyway, again I Probly got a little too worked up worrying about wording this wrong, and hurting feelings, or getting myself looked at like a douchbag know it all.....

But I'll add anyway....
I liked you from the beginning......But became down with you when I read that BS about someone calling you racist ass names.....I just don't tolerate that shit!

No luck.....
Good skill!

Sorce

 

[my nellie]

I would say that individual compact booklets are better choice than one voluminous tome. Each one dealing with just one concept/element e.g. line & form, color & contrast etc and of course the way that these are composed into a bonsai as a work of art. High quality illustration is undeniable.

... ... I just feel what you're trying to teach I have a good book well written and admired by many senior bonsai folk. That I see no reason adding to that topic.
My book...the newer version...nice hardbound large book well put together.
Principles of Bonsai Design
With over 500 photos and drawings, Mr. De Groot discusses aspects of art and aesthetics, traditional Japanese and Chinese styles, and new styles based on natural tree forms. Also covered are branch structure, deadwood features, initial styling, and container selection. A chapter on refinement is followed by chapters on display and collection management. Whether you're a novice or a skilled practitioner, this book will help you improve your bonsai

I wonder if Mr. De Groot's book deals with more than art subjects related to bonsai. On the contrary, Sawgrass has in mind only the basic fundamentals of art and how they relate to Bonsai... Do I understand that correctly?

 

[Cadillactaste]

I would say that individual compact booklets are better choice than one voluminous tome. Each one dealing with just one concept/element e.g. line & form, color & contrast etc and of course the way that these are composed into a bonsai as a work of art. High quality illustration is undeniable.I wonder if Mr. De Groot's book deals with more than art subjects related to bonsai. On the contrary, Sawgrass has in mind only the basic fundamentals of art and how they relate to Bonsai... Do I understand that correctly?

Not sure what your meaning. But feel this book is the cats meow. The table of contents is only a glimpse of what a goldmine this book is.

Not saying there can't be more out there like it...or similar. But,I won't be rushing to add it to my collection.

 

[sorce]

I would say that individual compact booklets are better choice than one voluminous tome. Each one dealing with just one concept/element e.g. line & form, color & contrast etc

Just brainstorming.

A cost analysis would have to be done to know for sure....

I'm stuck on 1 volume being less $ to create, and surely less Governement office headache!

Add, if they buy one, they'll buy them all any way....

But if you could somehow legally/financially safely turn it into a 3 year subscription of volumes or something...

You could propose a discounted price up front, thereby securing capitol to produce volumes 2 and 3, while shipping one.
And still sell other single copies here and there for a regular price.

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

Thanks everyone for the replies, and the votes! I appreciate it!
I am leaning more towards the individual books as well so I appreciate the positive thoughts, I think they could work quite well!

It will be still some time before I get it finished and printed! But, will be sure and post that is finished when it is!

Oh, and yes GrimLore, I can sign one if you want! Cool thing is I already have quite a few folks saying they want one, so, I think it will end up being worth the effort.
Thanks again!

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I would by them, I have a lot of bonsai books, but most were written long ago. Not saying the basic info is not relevant, but it would be nice to have a new perspective on things. I am with Grimmy, will there be signed copies and where can I get them?

John

 

[A Random User]

I would by them, I have a lot of bonsai books, but most were written long ago. Not saying the basic info is not relevant, but it would be nice to have a new perspective on things. I am with Grimmy, will there be signed copies and where can I get them?

John

Thanks for the reply!
I will let everyone know when it's ready, and sure I can sign it!
Thanks again appreciate it!

 

[Eric Group]

Books, like newspapers, are dying.

Write E books.

something similar to what Bonsai Emoire and Bjorn are doing... That is a better idea. Look at Internet "classes". Something people can read in one or two sittings, learn something and move on.

People get a Bonsai book and they think the same stuff will be recycled over and over- chapt 1- history of Bonsai, chapt 2- basics, chapt 3- wiring.... It gets old. I don't even want to buy any more Bonsai books. I feel I have learned as much about the subject as I wil, learn from books. Hands on application and demonstrations are what will teach us all more than any book. An E book gives you the ability to quickly produce what you want to put out there, dramatically reduces publishing times and costs and gives you multi-media capabilities. You could integrate images like a book, add audio video... Make it as interactive as you like and give people the ability to learn a lot more than they could from a book.

Keep in mind... Most who set out to write a book never complete it and of those who do a TINY percentage produce something that any publisher would even consider printing. Short e-books/ "classes" eliminate all of those challenges.

The challenge it does not eliminate is exposure. Bjorn is one of the better known-
S respected Bonsai artists in the States right now. Could that with a brand like Bonsai Empire, and they have the... "Clout" to get people excited. Do you feel your status in American Bonsai is at a point where you would sell many copies of a printed book or many subscriptions to an online class/ E book?

Just some food for thought! Good luck!

 

[quietobserver]

Books, like newspapers, are dying.

Write E books.

something similar to what Bonsai Emoire and Bjorn are doing... That is a better idea. Look at Internet "classes". Something people can read in one or two sittings, learn something and move on.

People get a Bonsai book and they think the same stuff will be recycled over and over- chapt 1- history of Bonsai, chapt 2- basics, chapt 3- wiring.... It gets old. I don't even want to buy any more Bonsai books. I feel I have learned as much about the subject as I wil, learn from books. Hands on application and demonstrations are what will teach us all more than any book. An E book gives you the ability to quickly produce what you want to put out there, dramatically reduces publishing times and costs and gives you multi-media capabilities. You could integrate images like a book, add audio video... Make it as interactive as you like and give people the ability to learn a lot more than they could from a book.

Keep in mind... Most who set out to write a book never complete it and of those who do a TINY percentage produce something that any publisher would even consider printing. Short e-books/ "classes" eliminate all of those challenges.

The challenge it does not eliminate is exposure. Bjorn is one of the better known-
S respected Bonsai artists in the States right now. Could that with a brand like Bonsai Empire, and they have the... "Clout" to get people excited. Do you feel your status in American Bonsai is at a point where you would sell many copies of a printed book or many subscriptions to an online class/ E book?

Just some food for thought! Good luck!

Certainly agree that print, in general, of really about anything and everything is dying.

 

[Tieball]

Book, expanded pamphlet, novel, eBook or whatever the end result....Please don't use "one needs to see this, one needs to do that, one needs to consider...." Drop the use of "one" please. It's terrible.

Have another person read, comment and offer editing. A person who will really tell you weak areas as well as areas of strength. In the end, before publishing, but at your point of completion, have the manuscript read thoroughly. There should be specific questions to answer at the end of the manuscript. The reader answers the questions to see how clearly you have communicated...and notes any areas where thoughts, ideas or instructions seem broken, incomplete or orphaned. You own the work...but you must also listen...you want your audience tuned in...your being tuned in is not good enough. You know this process already....just do it right....and you'll have an excellent result. Then marketing...search result placement...and more.

Think fresh....what's really missing knowledge, that you own, that can be shared to contribute to a successful development of a bonsai tree. Earlier posts talked about the usual "Table of Contents". I briefly explore a book through the Contents, if I see the usual order of "origins of bonsai, bonsai styles, followed by bonsai watering, care and maintenance later" the book has no value to me. I have plenty of those books. Give me something fresh and new.

Most of the time I look at the chapters and how many pages are focused on that subject. It's like books are written with 90% filler like every other book and then a nugget of fresh material only lightly touched. Be different. Focus on new knowledge.

eBook it.

 

[mattspinniken]

Books, like newspapers, are dying.
Write E books.

I agree that an E book would be the best way to get started. Besides your time, it is almost free to publish and much less of a risk. I buy 10 E books for every 1 regular book. I also think if you break the book down into 3 it would work better. A lot of studies have been done on E books through amazon publishing and shorter cheaper books often sell better. Do some research on publishing books on Amazon, things like the title and how you categorize your book are very important to drive sales.

Make your life a little easier and publish and E-book, if it does well you could get it printed. If you do publish an e-book I would definietly be a buyer!