Over wintering a juniper...in a cold frame

[Cadillactaste]

So...I was considering a cold frame...found one I felt could sit on my potting table on the side of my house that does not get much direct sun.

I was hoping to then decorate the bonsai for the holidays. Could I do that...or would I still need to protect the pot from cold?

The cold frame is made from cast iron and glass.

 

[Paradox]

I don't think putting a cold frame on top of a potting bench is a good idea. The bench doesn't have any insulation from the cold on the bottom because the top of the table is probably open underneath.

Not sure how big that coldframe is but it would be better to put it on the ground near the foundation of your house and probably insulate it from the bitter cold somehow (hay bales on each side). It looks kind of small so I'm not sure how well it will work. Do you have an unheated garage you could put the tree in?

As for decorating the tree for the holidays.......
Also not a great idea as Id assume you would want to display it somehow. Yes it needs to be protected from the cold/snow etc or it will die. You can't bring it into the house because it will be in dormancy and will still need to stay cold. I suggest decorating your Christmas tree and let your bonsai sleep.

 

[JudyB]

Does this coldframe have any way of venting? If not, then you might wind up cooking the tree on warmer days. Most coldframes have a prop up or automatic venting system to open it when the air gets warm. You may be better off with digging it into the ground or the garage option.
I decorate my blue spruce, but I don't bring it in. I just set it in view of my window. But spruce may be more cold tolerant, and more wind tolerant than juni's.

 

[Paradox]

I'm in a milder winter climate than you both are (further south and near the ocean). I left 2 procumbens nanas and one colorado blue spruce out on my bench last year.

Both junipers are dead and the spruce survived so I would agree that spruce are more tolerant.

 

[lordy]

I'm in a milder winter climate than you both are (further south and near the ocean). I left 2 procumbens nanas and one colorado blue spruce out on my bench last year.

Both junipers are dead

That shouldnt surprise you. The bench wont provide anything in terms of protection for the roots from the cold below, much the same as your suggestion to the OP. I dont get why people dont at least set the pot directly on the ground. Adding some sort of wind protection will go a long way in preventing twig dieback from freezing winds.

 

[GrimLore]

That shouldnt surprise you. The bench wont provide anything in terms of protection for the roots from the cold below, much the same as your suggestion to the OP. I dont get why people dont at least set the pot directly on the ground. Adding some sort of wind protection will go a long way in preventing twig dieback from freezing winds.

I agree - Our Tropicals come inside 18 years now. ALL else from tiny to tall get a heavy ground layer of pine horse bedding then get surrounded by the same bedding. We top off the containers with 3-4 more inches of it. For wind we use 5 foot hard wood stakes and 4 foot wide burlap from the local Agway. Easy, Fast and Cheap. It also frees up the greenhouse to store supplies and equipment. In the Spring I take the leaf blower to all the plants and double cut the lawn and the pine mulches in. This will be my 6th Winter growing outdoors and it works for me.

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Paradox...I see your point on the location of the potting table. I was just thinking ones would see it as they passed by into the house. As you say it can't come indoors. What if my husband made one...and made it large enough that I could store hay inside around the pot...with a vent system. And putting it up against the house under our deck. On the patio down under it near our door...would this also not work?

Curious if my husband could build me something that resembles this...larger...with a vent system (no Judy this one didn't have one)

Our garage isn't heated...it's a John Deere garage under our foyer area of the house. Though no vent work goes into the room...it is surrounded by two interior walls. (And occassionally the kids go into the gagarge to the freezer and forget to close the door.) Our other garage...to be honest I do not wish to venture to in the fridgid winter. Our gazebo for temporary housing can work...but when the windchill and temps drop to low we do turn on a heater out there...do to now wishing the pipes to the hot tub to freeze.

I may still go with a cold frame but one that vents...just sadly...I won't be able to put this on display outdoors for the holidays. Which I was hoping for. The price one pays for living in a colder climate come winter I guess. love the snow...just not the freezing wind chill.

 

[Dav4]

Our other garage...to be honest I do not wish to venture to in the fridgid winter. Our gazebo for temporary housing can work...but when the windchill and temps drop to low we do turn on a heater out there...do to now wishing the pipes to the hot tub to freeze.

QUOTE]

I vote for one of these locations for overwintering. Remember, the goal here isn't to keep the tree from freezing- the junipers in your yard typically are frozen by December and stay that way all winter and into the spring. The goal is to allow the tree to stay dormant through the winter months, protected from the severest cold, sun and wind ... and stay dormant until spring. An unheated outbuilding is generally perfect for this.

 

[Paradox]

That shouldnt surprise you. The bench wont provide anything in terms of protection for the roots from the cold below, much the same as your suggestion to the OP. I dont get why people dont at least set the pot directly on the ground. Adding some sort of wind protection will go a long way in preventing twig dieback from freezing winds.

It didn't and doesn't surprise me. It was an experiment to see what would happen. The results of which are why I said what I did.
My trees normally go in my garage.

 

[lordy]

It didn't and doesn't surprise me. It was an experiment to see what would happen. The results of which are why I said what I did.
My trees normally go in my garage.

gotcha. Not many would go to that length just to see, but good for you. I thought it odd due to the chronology of your posts. In the garage, how often would you say you need to water? Mine are open to the skies and I let Mother Nature take care of that for me. That and I couldnt fit 1/4 of my trees in my garage...not that I have a lot, but you'd understand if you saw my garage. :-/

 

[GrimLore]

Mine are open to the skies and I let Mother Nature take care of that for me. That and I couldnt fit 1/4 of my trees in my garage...not that I have a lot, but you'd understand if you saw my garage. :-/

I often wonder why more people do not just do the same - it would seem to work well in MANY climates

 

[Paradox]

In the garage, how often would you say you need to water? Mine are open to the skies and I let Mother Nature take care of that for me. That and I couldnt fit 1/4 of my trees in my garage...not that I have a lot, but you'd understand if you saw my garage. :-/

We did a massive cleaning and reorganization and throwing stuff out of the entire house, garage, and basement last winter. One 20 yard dumpster of old junk later and I can parts of the garage floor we haven't seen since we moved in 20 years ago. We purposely left space in the garage for some shelves to winter the trees on.

I check them every few days and probably need to water every week +/- a few days depending on which tree is is.

 

[coppice]

Can you set your cold house near to a cellar window? So that you could get into cold house to at least water...

Your cold house is going to offer protection from wind sheer and snow pack, but its not proof for baking on sunny days, If you are close enough to the lake to get lake effect snow, your cold house could be unopen-able for too long in the winter...

Getting in, once snow pack was on, was a challenge in Monadnock region in NH for me. An' some times ya' just gotta water.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Our other garage...to be honest I do not wish to venture to in the fridgid winter. Our gazebo for temporary housing can work...but when the windchill and temps drop to low we do turn on a heater out there...do to now wishing the pipes to the hot tub to freeze.

QUOTE]

I vote for one of these locations for overwintering. Remember, the goal here isn't to keep the tree from freezing- the junipers in your yard typically are frozen by December and stay that way all winter and into the spring. The goal is to allow the tree to stay dormant through the winter months, protected from the severest cold, sun and wind ... and stay dormant until spring. An unheated outbuilding is generally perfect for this.

I would rather stake it and put burlap around it as suggested once...than trek down to the garage to check to see if it needed water. I'm afraid if I or someone/kids gets sick...I'll neglect it and it will die. Forgotten in a garage...

So I was thinking of the post I did awhile back on decorating bonsai...and was trying to find a way to do so in an around about way...with still protecting it while keeping it dormant. Doesn't sound like that is doable...No temporarily...on display...for half a day...in something like that...would be detrimental to the tree right?

My husband is like...it's a juniper...why would you need to put it in a cold frame...its native to our area? I thought you were going to use stakes and burlap and shelter it from the wind...maybe some hay...I do not need to over analyze this...and he's right once more. Just was hoping to display it for our Christmas party was all.

Quote Originally Posted by lordy View Post
Mine are open to the skies and I let Mother Nature take care of that for me. That and I couldnt fit 1/4 of my trees in my garage...not that I have a lot, but you'd understand if you saw my garage. :-/

That would be ideal...I am so afraid that I'll forget to water it.

 

[Dav4]

I would rather stake it and put burlap around it as suggested once...than trek down to the garage to check to see if it needed water. I'm afraid if I or someone/kids gets sick...I'll neglect it and it will die. Forgotten in a garage...




I am so afraid that I'll forget to water it.

I would put my trees away into my unheated, unattached garage Thanksgiving weekend, mulch with wood chips, water in well.............and not have to water again until March. If the trees are dormant and out of the sun, their water needs are minimal. They would freeze solid by end of the year and stay that way until spring...and frozen trees don't need to be watered...though I would routinely apply fresh snow to the mulch as it became available. The burlap and mulch outside along the foundation of your house will work well, too...

 

[Paradox]

My husband is like...it's a juniper...why would you need to put it in a cold frame...its native to our area? I thought you were going to use stakes and burlap and shelter it from the wind...maybe some hay...I do not need to over analyze this...and he's right once more.

The difference is that it is in a pot, above ground. Trees/shrubs in the ground have a lot more tolerance for freezing. Just putting it on the ground, and putting a burlap tent around it wont be enough protection for that little guy. Its still too exposed to temperature shifts.

 

[Vance Wood]

So...I was considering a cold frame...found one I felt could sit on my potting table on the side of my house that does not get much direct sun.

I was hoping to then decorate the bonsai for the holidays. Could I do that...or would I still need to protect the pot from cold?

The cold frame is made from cast iron and glass.

To put this as simply as possible: If you do this you will kill your tree. Put the tree on the side of the house that gets little direct light, mulch up the pot and tree with leaves and provide some sort of small barrier that will keep the wind off of it. Water occasionally during the winter and let it be. Junipers need the rigors of winter and it is not a bad idea when the tree, soil and pot freeze solid. You are not trying to keep the tree warm you are trying to keep it asleep.

 

[Cadillactaste]

To put this as simply as possible: If you do this you will kill your tree. Put the tree on the side of the house that gets little direct light, mulch up the pot and tree with leaves and provide some sort of small barrier that will keep the wind off of it. Water occasionally during the winter and let it be. Junipers need the rigors of winter and it is not a bad idea when the tree, soil and pot freeze solid. You are not trying to keep the tree warm you are trying to keep it asleep.

I don't cover the entire tree right? To the first branch I think I read...that is most likely what I will do. Thanks...

 

[edprocoat]

I have posted this here before, last fall in October we had an unexpected hard freeze and all my plants froze solid in the pots. I lost all my tropical and many of my junipers. Oddly I had one recently chopped Ficus survive and my two smallest junipers lived and some others like my barberry endured. Another odd thing was that all my catlin elms survived despite the pots being froze solid and several pots breaking from the expansion of the wet frozen soil.

ed

 

[Vance Wood]

I have posted this here before, last fall in October we had an unexpected hard freeze and all my plants froze solid in the pots. I lost all my tropical and many of my junipers. Oddly I had one recently chopped Ficus survive and my two smallest junipers lived and some others like my barberry endured. Another odd thing was that all my catlin elms survived despite the pots being froze solid and several pots breaking from the expansion of the wet frozen soil.

ed

A couple of things are going on here. First of all there has been in the past some misinformation floating around that you cannot let the roots on a bonsai freeze. This is untrue. I keep all of my bonsai outdoors in the coldest weather except my tropicals; when I had them. I have left ficus out doors in twenty degre weather and had no harm come to them. It's not a practice I would continue for the entire winter. As to the temperate trees they freeze solid, and I do the best I can to keep them that way as long as possible. It is the constant freeze and thaw that will kill your trees.