Planted a Maple in a pot... what next?

[LukeDanielson]

I have two questions... is this bonsai material? If so, where do I go from here? Here is the back-story:

Over the winter, I became highly fascinated with bonsia's. I have read and watched a lot of material but never have worked on or owned one.

So late this winter after the ground thawed, I was getting ahead on some yard work and found a young tree (about 3-4 ft tall) that was growing in a place where I didnt want it to grow. I didn't know what it was or what I was doing, but I knew you can create a bonsai out of many types of trees... so I pulled it up, cleaned up the roots, chopped it down to about 6 in tall, and planted it in a pot. I know you are supposed to use a well; draining "potting mix" but the best I had on hand was a mixture of soil from the ground I pulled it from, sand, and gravel.

I had no clue whether it would grow or not, but a few months later, here I am pleasantly surprised. I think its a type of maple (let me know if I am wrong).

Now I don't know if I should just keep letting it grow, or should I be trimming? If so how regularly and how much at a time. I really don't have any idea what I am doing, so please don't be afraid to talk down to me... I'm here to learn

A couple more notes that could be helpful: I live in southwest Ohio. When I found it, it had a bend in the trunk and grew diagonal out of the ground about 8 inches before going straight up... I cut it off below the bend and planted it even more leaning back than it was when I pulled it up. I tried to wire the first branch and direct it backward a little bit, but mostly because I bought a bonsai kit and was eager to try wiring... I dont think it did anything.

 

[Alain]

Indeed it looks like some sort of maple.

For the moment it looks far from a bonsai but I think there are some thing to do.
Here what I'll do:
- First of all I will pot it in a better soil and in a wider but shallower pot. So I'll take a big pot that I'll shop at 5" more of less. Then I'll remove the soil and plant the tree with it's roots well spread around it. The soil I use for all my trees in training is the mixture Brent Watson from Evergreen garden works recommends: 8 parts perlite/8 parts pine bark/1 part sphagnum moss.
- then I'll chop the trunk above the first big branch on the left (the one you wired, I won't bother with the 2 other branches) and I'll wire this branch vertical, it will become the tree new leader, doing that I will begin the process of thickening the trunk, this will take some years. You could read an article on this chop and let grow technique in Evergreen garden website:
http://evergreengardenworks.com/trunks.htm

For the moment that will be it.
So I'll keep running everywhere else to find more trees: nurseries, garden centers, air layer in my yard and so on, in order to have something to do while this one take times getting a decent trunk because for the moment it has a nice diameter but nothing else (no taper, not a very fancy bark, and most certainly no nebari).

Actually I just saw a big root so it has some sort of nebari, by potting is with the roots well dispose flat around the trunk it will help developing the nebari.

 

[Alain]

btw: could be a sycamore (acer pseudoplatanus).

The size of the leaves will be a problem for a bonsai, but not before a couple of years

 

[jeanluc83]

Welcome. It looks like you did pretty good actually. You can tell because it is still alive.

I would say it is probably a red maple, acer rubrum. Red maples are one of the most widespread trees in the US. Unfortunately they are not the best suited for bonsai but that's not to say that it can't be done. The short comings are naturally large leaves and large internodes. My understanding is that they can be reduced but you need to keep on top of them. I had a large one with some potential but died the year after collection. All I have now are a couple of seedlings that sprouted in some of my pots. I plan on collecting a couple larger trees next spring if I have the time.

For right now I would just keep doing what you are doing. Next spring you might think about repotting into a better substrate. In the mean time do a search for acer rubrum. There are a couple of threads here that have some good info on the species.

Also your wiring is not too bad but it is doing nothing for you. All you did was wire a leaf out of the way. Most of what you wired is the stem of the leaf (there is a name for it but it escapes me) and it will be gone come fall.

Get out to the local nurseries and pick up some more material to work on.

 

[sorce]

Luke,

In my book. Everything is bonsai material. The question is, how many generations till it is "presentable" .

Looks like you got some rather large leaves, which means it could be a while, that makes it good for learning anyway!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[rockm]

This is a sycamore, not a red maple. Sycamore is extremely difficult as bonsai, not so much because it's hard to grow, but the WAY it grows. Sycamore wants to be a huge, gangly tree with HUGE leaves (which can wind up as big as dinner plates). Leaf reduction isn't the problem, though. The species grows gangly limbs and has long internodes. Those two things can greatly complicate or disrupt the image you're trying to create, especially with a specimen as tiny as the one you're working with. The gangly loose growth and long internode spaces on twigs can be workable if the tree you're working with is on the large bonsai side--say four to five feet tall with a 8-10 inch or greater trunk diameter. Trees of that size can soften the angular character of long limbs and open spaces.

FWIW, I'd start with another species (like an elm) if you're after something you can work with and not feel as though you're fighting a losing battle.

 

[LukeDanielson]

Thanks for the responses. Yes, I was going to get something else to work with... there is a local nursery that sells bonsai's that I have been looking at. I'll get something one of these days. I would love a good indoor species, but I am still doing research on that.

In the mean time I guess I'll just keep growing this one for fun and learning, even if it is never "presentable" as Sorce says. Would you all recommend letting it grow natural until next spring, or should I be trimming back when it gets too tall? Also, should I chop the trunk back even further, leaving only the one branch that I have wired?

 

[jeanluc83]

You hear all too often that "such and such species" is not good for bonsai so don't waste your time. My thought is, if it is green and already in a pot keep it. If in a few years you do decide its not worth it, its because you found it out on your own. 95% of bonsai is horticulture the other half is art. There is always something to learn, even from worthless material.

That said get yourself some better material to work on. In the beginning just having trees survive is a success.

This is a sycamore, not a red maple.

I'm curious why you say sycamore vs. red maple?

 

[Oliver Muscio]

I think I would have to agree with rockm that it is not a red maple--the leaves don't look like acer rubrum. It might be a sycamore, but in that case, considering your Connecticut location, it is more likely to be an American sycamore, Platanus occidentalis, rather than than Acer pseudoplatanus, the European sycamore maple that Alain suggested. On the other hand, the leaves don't quite look like American sycamore, either, so maybe Alain is right.

 

[Giga]

I have a few red maples and this doesn't look like it to me either. All of the new growth has a hint of red while this does not. It's hard to tell really but either or, if your serious about bonsai-keep this one alive and healthy and then get some better material as well.

 

[rockm]

You hear all too often that "such and such species" is not good for bonsai so don't waste your time. My thought is, if it is green and already in a pot keep it. If in a few years you do decide its not worth it, its because you found it out on your own. 95% of bonsai is horticulture the other half is art. There is always something to learn, even from worthless material.

That said get yourself some better material to work on. In the beginning just having trees survive is a success.



I'm curious why you say sycamore vs. red maple?

Look at the leaves. Size and shape says sycamore -- Platanus occidentalis-- not red maple. Bark is also wrong for red maple.

As for using anything and everything as bonsai material, good luck with that. You can learn things from everything, but some sources are more efficient than others. Collect everything and you'll soon have more than enough time-wasters taking up resources and time at the expense of finding and working better material that will make the journey more pleasant and fulfilling.
Sycamore
http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/american_sycamore.htm
Red Maple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_rubrum

 

[M. Frary]

using anything and everything as bonsai material, g

Seeing a lot of that lately.
Just because people can dig any old thing up and it lives in a bucket doesn't mean it can be a bonsai.
Time wasters. Why waste time and space for something to "practice" on. Why not practice on a bonsai suitable tree? By the time practice is over you should have a bonsai. If you use say a red oak to practice on all you end up with an oak in a pot with twisty limbs with huge leaves and are really no closer to learning how to work a bonsai suitable tree.
If you start practicing on an elm or Japanese maple or Japanese black pine you begin with material that can in the end give you a sense of accomplishment and pride.

 

[Alain]

Wait for the falls, if there are some black round spots on the leaves then Sycamore for sure

Btw: he said he is from Ohio, not Connecticut no? Speaking of which it will be a good idea to up-date your profile location.
If Southwest Ohio is kinda the same as Illinois then you must have a truck load of these maples all over the place.
The one we have in my neighborhood have a bark that looks a lot like platanus (with white and grey spots), I though that was the reason why they were called 'pseudoplatanus'

Otherwise: I have a ton of them sycamore, all babies from last year.
I was watching my hot dog sausages cooking on the BBQ when a sudden wind blew little maple helicopters all over my yard. I collected at least 20 of them when they start germinating and put them in pots. They grow pretty well and handle the climate perfectly.
However as said above they don't look like very good bonsai material.
In my case I don't really care as the plan is to try to make a forest at one point so I'm not looking for an All Star nebari or a 10" diameter trunk, I just want some nice enough straight trunks to make a group planting.

Regarding your own maple: as I said I would chop it and try to get something going with the trunk which seems rather monotonous to me for the moment.

Otherwise if you want indoor trees the best would be ficus may be.
They are fast grower, though to kill, very forgiving fellows for a beginner.

 

[LukeDanielson]

Correct, I am from Southern Ohio. I live in a very old neighborhood with many different types of trees. The nearest one to where I found mine is in my neighbors yard. It has very similar shaped leave but they are a deep red or almost purple. Here are some better pics of a leave from my tree, plus a leaf from the neighbors tree. There are many other very tall trees nearby. I attached some pictures of those... and I threw in one from last fall just because I think its cool.

I'll keep it growing this one and get some better material as well. I kinda like it even if it will never be anything really cool.

 

[sdavis]

.....with the new photos of neighborhood trees, I vote for Norway maple. Young trees are green and leaves turn darker when older.

 

[rockm]

It's a Norway Maple. Not much better for bonsai than sycamore. Similar issues.

 

[jeanluc83]

Look at the leaves. Size and shape says sycamore -- Platanus occidentalis-- not red maple. Bark is also wrong for red maple.

Based on the new pictures, you are correct, not red maple. I've had a few red maples that look very similar to the original pictures. I have found the growth after a trunk chop to be a little "weird" and not look typical for the species. I think it has to do with the tree trying to push as much growth as it can quickly. The leaves grow fast and do not necessary form correctly.

As for using anything and everything as bonsai material, good luck with that.

I'm not saying you are going to pull any turd out of the ground and make it a masterpiece but this tree has already been collected and shouldn't be abandoned. The first lesson you must learn in bonsai is to keep a tree in a pot alive. This is a tree in a pot and it is alive. The lesson has started.

 

[M. Frary]

The lesson has started.

Learning how to keep something alive in a bucket that you aren't going to use for a bonsai is not learning bonsai. It's just keeping something alive in a bucket.
Why waste time ,space and energy on something that will never be anything but a tree in a bucket.
Get something suitable for bonsai and practice on that. Any elm is better than any native maple trees for bonsai. And can take mistakes. Plus there is tons of information on how to work species suitable for bonsai. Not so much on Norway maples.

 

[0soyoung]

It's a Norway Maple. Not much better for bonsai than sycamore. Similar issues.

Yes, but Norway leaf sizes can be radically reduced in bonsai cultivation and one can have a lot of fun with them.