Please Participate in an Important Community Discussion.

[Mike Corazzi]

How about Alchemy?

Alchemists are heretics and should be burned at the stake.




Now how can I delete this post tomorrow?

 

[Oleg]

I am in favor to never sensor, in theory. However cruelty, nastiness, racism and the like are different. There may be two sides to all arguments, but where there is an argument there are two people. While one may well not give a damn, the mocking, insults, and hatred remain, as does the person's name being attacked. People need to feel comfortable coming here, not concerned about humiliation and hatred. The concept of freedom of speech was intended to make life better not to allow or protect those who would subvert other ideals and principles at the core of who we are as a society. Community support plays a large role. I think, if bigotry could be silenced for a full generation maybe two, it would finally be neutralized, not that bigots would have to disappear but that scars would heal, those maligned would be one with the rest of us, supported and strong. A bigot would then leave people scratching their heads, asking who's the crazy person & what's wrong with them? I was going to ask when was the last time someone took offence at being called a white male, LOL. The answer however does not support my argument, I have felt guilt because they are in power, (like all hierarchies; natures way, you know) they want to stay in power and they want to do it their way, Why? So they so they can stay in power, get more power and stuff. I am not in power but I have benefited all my life being a white male. So I feel guilt but they do not, this part does support my argument of affected-unaffected. It's the wounds and learned experiences that perpetuates it's potency whether it's race, religion or you're an awkward geek, it all hurts and when it's ongoing, people become head-shy. No one deserves to be mutated by the cruel and the ignorant, a blind adherence to principle or just plain silence. The scope of circumstance is huge, some people push for escalation, drive threads off topic leaving 100 pages of pollution to lose 3 informative post in. Others bring attacks upon themselves with their foolishness that are endlessly argued, offering nothing else. A principle is just that, a foundation, it is a starting point, it is to be refined & employed not imposed, it's boundaries defined and redefined as necessary. You shouldn't allow half your population to become marginalized because of a principle penned long ago, I'm sure that those who did expected that other intelligent educated people would follow. These principles were achieved to fight tyranny, they would never have expected people's blind adherence to their words, that would be tyranny would it not. Black and white should be saved for science, with us, for society, everything is fluid and must remain so to achieve the core values of the society we wish to build.

AND I BELIEVE ... LOL!

Well shit, what do you want, I'm Canadian, sorry sorce, I'm not voting for either, delete-yes for a well stated reason to build the type of forum I/you/we would like to exist. It is possible you know, to live a horrible unhealthy life trying to maintain your principles which are often short sited, your founding fathers could not possibly envisioned what today would look like, a good idea though, it's spread along way. One other thing already mentioned, everyone is a jerk sometimes! The internet is forever, I think leaving you looking like a shit head for eternity is a bit rough. Amnesty through apology is mercy, even prisoners get parole.

 

[HorseloverFat]

It comes down to the basic question... “who should have the power to ‘draw those sorts of lines’” ...

.....and if the answer to that question is NO ONE....Then lines shouldn’t be drawn at all. This is a very tough subject relying heavily on “gray areas” for stability.

Occam’s razor would suggest that non-censorship is the easiest way to go... eliminates a majority of the debate....

Once the notion of censorship is spawned.. you’ll end up at that same crossroads again... arguing over who should draw the lines....

...in my opinion.

 

[Maloghurst]

This thread has more bifurcations then most of my trees.

 

[leatherback]

Please don't leave because of differing definitions of "missionary work".

Thx. I am still done with this thread. I do not understand why there is an ignore function. I do not understand why people get all upset if I disagree with someones life-choice. And I even less understand how such an opinion can get me on someones ignore list. And because I will just keep repeating myself, it is better to be out. I have insulted enough people in this thread already, I have noticed. I am on this site for the trees. I enjoy a bit of goofing around at times. But somehow that never lands well. Guess I will keep out of these types of threads for a bit.

Freedom of speech only works in an environment where people are self-confident enough to not be insulted by the opinion of others?

 

[JudyB]

I am on this site for the trees.

So lets get back to that then shall we?

 

[M. Frary]

I'd consider the "blow me" part more offense than the "little bitch" part.

I do bring out the best in people.
None of that is offensive to me.
Or you would have seen some truly offensive posts.
You know.

 

[M. Frary]

This thread has gone crazy South. Why was it allowed to go off course like this? It should have been locked a long time ago IMO. What a joke!

If you don't like it quit looking.

 

[Oleg]

It comes down to the basic question... “who should have the power to ‘draw those sorts of lines’” ...

.....and if the answer to that question is NO ONE....Then lines shouldn’t be drawn at all. This is a very tough subject relying heavily on “gray areas” for stability.

Occam’s razor would suggest that non-censorship is the easiest way to go... eliminates a majority of the debate...

You're back to black and white and hung up on the power of who, the person who created and administrates this forum, it's their power whether they do or don't it's their's, very black and white that part, why? because they can. This is a man made platform and easy may be the way they prefer it, I'm fine with that, it gets very gray and becomes a lot more work with many more perils and we should be able to sort it out, right? If so fine but you have every right to administrate your creation the way you want. We should all be adult, strong and armored you say? Suck it up? Okay sure but many aren't. Which ones contribute, is this one too whimpy? too soft skinned, maybe? do they drive people off the platform you created? These are all valid questions to be asked by the admin, all valid questions to be asked by you, you may not get an answer or the answer you want but still valid. Look at the B & W of this principle. You have a back yard barbecue and one guest picks up a baseball bat and chases another guest off your property, well what do you say to him/her? What do you say to the other guest next time you see them? Is there even a dilemma for you? That's by far the easiest but I think your back to the dog eat dog. It took a lot of growth and evolution to form that Grand Principle and you use it for what, to return to the jungle? You used it to validate your preference for easy. It wasn't even your work, the legacy you inherited leaves you with a responsibility that you keep going and that means work, thought. Black & white are instructions and they are lazy and in my opinion only for peons.
I am in no way trying to be offensive or derogatory, the "you" splashed around on this post must be taken as the larger you, you, me, us & we.

Once the notion of censorship is spawned.. you’ll end up at that same crossroads again... arguing over who should draw the lines....

I think that the "absolute" interpretation of this principle guarantees you will never leave the crossroads again, wounds and divisions will never mend. Like WWI you'll fight and die over the same territory for an eternity.

No offense intended, just my opinion.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I'm opposed to the underlying reason for that work, which is to convert people to christianity.

The underlying reason is to help the underpriviledged who do not have access to the vast resources that we do. They do not go there to convert people to Christianity. If someone converts, it is of their own free will. Do you think Mother Theresa wouldn't help someone if they weren't Christian?

 

[Lazylightningny]

If you don't like it quit looking.

That's the best form of moderation.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I am in no way trying to be offensive or derogatory, the "you" splashed around on this post must be taken as the larger you, you, me, us & we.

I've gotten into trouble with that myself. One of the perils of the English language.

 

[sorce]

Another problem with something being deleted, is it kinda allows for the possibility of never getting, or asking for forgiveness.

Amnesty through apology is mercy,

When it's gone, there's less reason to apologize, less reason to be human.

And most important for me, it can make it impossible to know what was actually meant.

The thing @Adair M mentioned about having it look like you needed to be edited, is also severely wrong, I didn't see that angle. More poison.

Thanks for your Assistance folks.

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

You're back to black and white and hung up on the power of who, the person who created and administrates this forum, it's their power whether they do or don't it's their's, very black and white that part, why? because they can. This is a man made platform and easy may be the way they prefer it, I'm fine with that, it gets very gray and becomes a lot more work with many more perils and we should be able to sort it out, right? If so fine but you have every right to administrate your creation the way you want. We should all be adult, strong and armored you say? Suck it up? Okay sure but many aren't. Which ones contribute, is this one too whimpy? too soft skinned, maybe? do they drive people off the platform you created? These are all valid questions to be asked by the admin, all valid questions to be asked by you, you may not get an answer or the answer you want but still valid. Look at the B & W of this principle. You have a back yard barbecue and one guest picks up a baseball bat and chases another guest off your property, well what do you say to him/her? What do you say to the other guest next time you see them? Is there even a dilemma for you? That's by far the easiest but I think your back to the dog eat dog. It took a lot of growth and evolution to form that Grand Principle and you use it for what, to return to the jungle? You used it to validate your preference for easy. It wasn't even your work, the legacy you inherited leaves you with a responsibility that you keep going and that means work, thought. Black & white are instructions and they are lazy and in my opinion only for peons.
I am in no way trying to be offensive or derogatory, the "you" splashed around on this post must be taken as the larger you, you, me, us & we.



I think that the "absolute" interpretation of this principle guarantees you will never leave the crossroads again, wounds and divisions will never mend. Like WWI you'll fight and die over the same territory for an eternity.

No offense intended, just my opinion.

Good points!

 

[Paradox]

The underlying reason is to help the underpriviledged who do not have access to the vast resources that we do. They do not go there to convert people to Christianity. If someone converts, it is of their own free will. Do you think Mother Theresa wouldn't help someone if they weren't Christian?

I think people get confused with the old form of missionary. In the past, missionaries were sent to other countries/places to try and convert people to Christianity.

I believe that focus has changed in the last 30-40 years or more. There are more what I would call "humanitarian missionaries" that go to try and help underdeveloped countries and people that dont have access to things like education, health care, infrastructure. However some people still get stuck with the definition of the "religious missionaries".

 

[Paradox]

As for the topic.

There used to be another section of the forums that is now hidden (I dont think it was ever truly deleated), called the Karaoke bar where any topic was allowed, even religion and politics.

There was a couple of threads that got so nasty with the name calling and abuse that it started spilling over into the rest of the forum.
It was tearing the community apart and Gregg (BNut) had to remove it from view/posting.
Unfortunately there are times when people cant agree to differ in opinion and they cant be rational about differing opinions.
Some topics get downright personal and nasty when people get very passionate about it to the point where anyone that doesnt agree is the "enemy".

I have mixed feelings about it.

However one thing I do know is that this forum is considered a "private space" and Freedom of Speech laws do not entirely apply here.
Gregg, as owner of the site can establish rules of engagement and remove any post, topic or person that doesnt agree or adhere to those rules.
He also has some rules to adhere to that the company he rents the web server from that also curtail those freedom of speech laws.
He is not allowed to allow pornographic topics or content, or anything that is blatently against the law as per his rental agreement.

 

[brewmeister83]

They do not go there to convert people to Christianity. If someone converts, it is of their own free will. Do you think Mother Theresa wouldn't help someone if they weren't Christian?

I'm neither for nor against anything in this thread, I hardly use the platform anymore, but I will offer a word of caution as I skim through this debacle of a forum post as my evening entertainment - Be especially careful who you pick to use as an example for piety... Two words - "deathbed baptisms"

 

[Woocash]

... I have benefited all my life being a white male. So I feel guilt...

This unlocks such a can of worms and is one of my true bugbears of modern society. Do you truly mean you have benefitted or just that you have experienced all the liberties and opportunities that every one of us should automatically receive anyway? This guilt you feel has no service to anyone other than to make you feel bad about your life (if only in a tiny way).

As is humanity’s way, we don’t ever try to raise everyone up, we only like to bring the perceived successful down. This is just plain wrong. In the UK at least, equality is seemingly a massive buzz word which instead of saying that we will not tolerate injustice against anyone has come to mean, “these guys have had it good since the beginning so now it’s our turn”. Why should there be anything such as turns? As is correct there is no racist speech, no sexist speech, no homophobic speech allowed - unless - it is barely perceptible sly digs and otherwise downright obvious snide remarks against straight white men.

This serves several purposes. Firstly, the angry bigots find all the more reason to hate “chicks, blacks and gays”. Lay down a challenge to their freedoms and animosity only rises. Secondly, these digs mean that large amounts of pretty much the largest demographic in the west ends up feeling guilty for things they haven’t done or contributed to. This just adds to mental health issues, unfair societal pressures, and unrealistic expectations of success (we’ve already got it made so if we fail then we have no excuse, whereas everyone else has us to compete against). White males commit suicide more than any other group. Thirdly, it keeps society in the doldrums where we can not move forward as one entity. Instead of being pulled down into the same pit as the oppressed, should we not all be working together to put everyone on the same plain?

I know this was more of just a small part of the overall post, but it’s an underlying issue in society, for me, that means we will never truly progress. If bigots feel no threats they are less likely be bigots, white male masses would feel less pressure and would less likely to be apathetic or guilt ridden and society can actually grow instead of going round in the same circles that we have been for millennia. Technology has improved exponentially where our attitudes have stagnated.

 

[A. Gorilla]

No, but I think that if you post something so heinous that someone has to complain..

Heinous is in the eye of the beholder. Go compare this place to, say, Reddit.

Those drones hit "report" out of reptilian instinct and piddle themselves at the slightest exposure to uncomfortable truths. And of course the "downvoting". Sweet mother of God, what a retarded concept.

 

[sorce]

How's this for laughs.

At the Harley Forum (motorcycle), they had a post about the line of idiots going up that big mountain, since it's warmer now and sissy fucks can almost do it.
A tourist attraction? WTF?

Anyway I was like, "c'mon Avalanche!"

Because those morons waiting in line to die, are the same folks who text and drive, and don't look for motorcycles. So fuck em!

That got deleted. Why?

The moderater, "Canadian Rockies", must have had people he knows die in avalanches, or at least has a healthy fear of them.

Still doesn't mean I should have been edited.

While people go around there talking about "should have stabbed him" all the time, joke or not.

Sorce