Procumbens...(nana)..maintenance before & after

[coh]

I've got several junipers that were sold as "procumbens nana" that have very compact growth that is both needle and scale. Were they mislabeled somewhere along the way? It's quite possible. I've seen many plants mislabeled at nurseries and garden centers.

Would be funny though if the mislabeling was the other way around...and it was the procumbens nana that had both types of foliage and the San Jose that didn't.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I have an email in to Michael Dirr he has asked me to send photos which I have done.
Awaiting response.

 

[Adair M]

I've got several junipers that were sold as "procumbens nana" that have very compact growth that is both needle and scale. Were they mislabeled somewhere along the way? It's quite possible. I've seen many plants mislabeled at nurseries and garden centers.

Would be funny though if the mislabeling was the other way around...and it was the procumbens nana that had both types of foliage and the San Jose that didn't.

Oh, goodness! Let's not go there! Lol!!!

I have seen San Jose Juniper that was nearly all scale, 95%, but never 100%. On the other hand, I have seen Procumbens go 100% scale.

 

[just.wing.it]

Ive seen 5 needle eastern white pines labeled as mugos.... at the depot

 

[Adair M]

Ok, I sent Boon some of the same junipers that I sent up North to Rochester. He says they are Procumbens Nana. Most of them were scale when I sent them.

But he says that they will revert to juvi in his climate, and when they get worked. And probably not return to scale because of the climate difference.

He says that if they are "just left alone" in the South, they can go scale.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Commercial names, as well as are common names, are often wrong. I am a biologist and believe me there are a lot mislabelled organisms out there (e.g. killer whale is not a whale at all, it's a dolphin).
Unlike killer whales, however, many species are hard to tell apart unless you are a truly expert on the subject and know what to look for.

We now have DNA that helps taxonomists putting names on species.

I am no expert on Juniperus or trees (for that matter), a quick look at two scientific databases (Catalogue of Life and Encyclopedia of Life - you can check them yourselves) provided the following information.
J procumbens has no subspecies - so there is no such thing as J. procumbens nana.
There is J. communis and this is divided into two subspecies: J. communis nana and J. communis communis.
There is no San Jose subspecies or species that I could find. So this "variety" probably does not exist and it's only a commercial name.
J. chinensis has three valid sub-species but neither is called nana or San Jose. There's a ton of mislabeled species that are in fact J. chinensis.

The names may help somewhat. Procumbens means prostrating. So this species should have a low-laying natural habit. Communis means only that it is common so it provides little information regarding its phenotype. The meaning of Chinensis is obvious, but again tells us little regarding the species phenotype.

Hope the above helps.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Ok, I sent Boon some of the same junipers that I sent up North to Rochester. He says they are Procumbens Nana. Most of them were scale when I sent them.

But he says that they will revert to juvi in his climate, and when they get worked. And probably not return to scale because of the climate difference.

He says that if they are "just left alone" in the South, they can go scale.

If you got the money and will, take a sample and send to genotyping. Then contrast the result with geneBank. You should then know for certain.

 

[Adair M]

Unfortunately, Gustavo, it doesn't help at all! Lol!!!

Some of the minute characteristics we look at in Bonsai may not have been genotyped. For instance, the difference between Kishu shimpaku and Itoigawa shimpaku is very subtle, and probably of little concern to anyone genotyping plants. They might say they're both "shimpaku", but even "shimpaku" is really Chinensis.

 

[just.wing.it]

Ok, I sent Boon some of the same junipers that I sent up North to Rochester. He says they are Procumbens Nana. Most of them were scale when I sent them.

But he says that they will revert to juvi in his climate, and when they get worked. And probably not return to scale because of the climate difference.

He says that if they are "just left alone" in the South, they can go scale.

Ah ha! My thoughts exactly....very interesting.

 

[M. Frary]

Sit a San Jose next a nana procumbens and the difference is clear.
San Jose are more coarse. Like the one in the original post.
Nana procumbens get scale foliage here.

 

[GrimLore]

Some of the minute characteristics we look at in Bonsai may not have been genotyped. For instance, the difference between Kishu shimpaku and Itoigawa shimpaku is very subtle, and probably of little concern to anyone genotyping plants. They might say they're both "shimpaku", but even "shimpaku" is really Chinensis.

I am always put off for many reasons by sellers that group the Itoigawa, Kishu, and Shimpaku junipers into one. The history alone of each is quite different. Also receiving thirty small Shimpaku that end up being something different really screws up plans to graft or properly teach an NPO group however unimportant it "seems" to the seller.
On another note there is thread somewhere here were myself and others discussed the presence of Eastern Red Cedar in many areas causing mutations with other Junipers local to the different regions... ARGH! It is getting to a point where you may have to refer samples to a Lab to ID your plants

Grimmy

 

[barrosinc]

I don't know when this thread derailed so much, but the original posted tree looks very procumbens to me.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Unfortunately, Gustavo, it doesn't help at all! Lol!!!

Some of the minute characteristics we look at in Bonsai may not have been genotyped. For instance, the difference between Kishu shimpaku and Itoigawa shimpaku is very subtle, and probably of little concern to anyone genotyping plants. They might say they're both "shimpaku", but even "shimpaku" is really Chinensis.

If they are 'real ' differences that would pass to the next generation via sexual reproduction (not clones via vegetative reproduction) they are to be picked by genetics. Otherwise they are just adaptation to local environment and will disappear when that individual dies

 

[Adair M]

That's true.

I just doubt that they have done a genotype of Kishu, or Itoigawa, or Sargents Juniper. So that if someone were to send a sample, the geneticist would be able to determine which one it is.

 

[GrimLore]

That's true.

I just doubt that they have done a genotype of Kishu, or Itoigawa, or Sargents Juniper. So that if someone were to send a sample, the geneticist would be able to determine which one it is.

Which brings up a question of concern -



Thank you for playing!

Grimmy

 

[Adair M]

Which brings up a question of concern -

View attachment 144931

Thank you for playing!

Grimmy

If I'm driving a Tesla, and it gets stolen, it's called a carjack! Lol!

Cool thing, if a Tesla gets stolen, they can determine exactly where it is. My cell phone has an app that shows me its location. And Tesla can see it's location, even if the thief is smart enough to turn off the app from inside the car.

What's even more amazing, Nicolai Tesla predicted television, cell phones, etc.

 

[coh]

If I'm driving a Tesla, and it gets stolen, it's called a carjack! Lol!

Cool thing, if a Tesla gets stolen, they can determine exactly where it is. My cell phone has an app that shows me its location. And Tesla can see it's location, even if the thief is smart enough to turn off the app from inside the car.

Can they take control of the car and have it drive itself to the nearest police station? Now, that would be impressive!

 

[Adair M]

Can they take control of the car and have it drive itself to the nearest police station? Now, that would be impressive!

Not yet. But soon, very soon!

 

[just.wing.it]

Nicolai Tesla predicted television, cell phones, etc

They say he had contact with extraterrestrial/ supernatural/ divine intelligence.....visions and such....like many others of his type.

 

[Adair M]

Can they take control of the car and have it drive itself to the nearest police station? Now, that would be impressive!

If the thief hasn't turned off the app, I can honk the horn, flash the lights, lock and unlock the doors, turn on or turn off the heat and air! It's not obvious how to turn the app off. Not that it's any great secret.

If I get carjacked, and he evicted me from the car, and he drives off, it will continue to drive until he gets out and closes the door. It automatically locks. And if he had no key because it's in my pocket, he can't drive it again. There actually is no physical key.