Pruning JBP shoots in August (now) ???

DrBonsai

Mame
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Location
Chicago, IL
USDA Zone
5b
I am in the midst of pruning Scots pine shoots to 4 pairs of needles to promote back budding and ramification.
Could you do the same to a Japanese Black Pine whose candles were not pinched or pruned ?
I left the JBP candles to elongate and help strengthen the foliage after a lot of needles were dried out over the winter. The tree appears very healthy now so I was wondering If I could treat the JBP like a 1 flush tree to get a head start on back budding and prevent elongation of shoots ?
 
Where in the world are you?:p The answer to your question is complicated, and depends on the season and location.

If the pine is healthy, pruning it back to 4 pairs of needles will either cause it to develop and open new candles this year, or to set new buds for next year. I usually wait until I have 30-45 days until first frost to prune it back in this manner.

Some generalizations:
-If you're in a northern climate, reducing the foliage this much this late in the summer on a tree early in training is probably not a great plan. The tree should be in high gear now, using a healthy new mass of foliage to build up the roots for a strong flush next year.

-If you're in CA or FL, it's probably just fine, and you'll get new candles at the cut sites. Who knows if that's what you need right now.

Maybe a photo? And a location?
 
I am located in Chicago area, Zone 5 b. I thought by pruning the shoots now and fertilizing moderately, I would encourage more buds for next year. Needles appear Dark Green, Fixed and Sharp, so I thought
I could take advantage of remaining good weather and sun to stimulate more back budding. I thought it would be too late to open new candles this year and that was not my intent. Do you think its too early to prune the shoots on either the scots pine or the JBP ? 30-45 days before first frost would land us early to mid-Oct.
 
Don't do the fall bud removal treatment, not in zone 5b.

I'm in the Chicago area. And I have killed a fair number of JBP. Some quickly, some slowly. I had one I kept alive for 18 years before I made a stupid mistake and killed it by over-working it. My current batch I have 13 JBP, some for over 5 years now.

JBP is a subtropical pine, does well, vigorous in southern USA. Chicago is near the northern limit for cold tolerance for JBP. We also have a much shorter growing season, with no more than 150 days between last frost and first frost. Up here in Chicago-land we DO NOT get the vigorous growth that others in the south get from their JBP's. As you noticed, you didn't decandle this year because you lost a lot of needles over the winter. If you prune it back to just 4 needles per branch in September, and then we have another rough winter and you loose needles again - what will happen to your tree? Death of course. So I would recommend against such treatment. Unless you have a greenhouse and can keep the tree in full sun and at temperatures between 32 and 45 F during the entire winter. That would give you a "southern" growing season and you can then get away with what they do in California.

I found that up north here I get better results if I decandle only every other year, or maybe 2 years in a row then take one off. If you take a year off from decandling, when it comes time to do it again, you can go back and cut back 2 years of growth if you left older needles on the branch. If you religiously removed all 2nd year needles, then you won't be able to go back more than the current season's growth. I do not pull old needles automatically from young trees in development, for just this reason. In our relatively short summers, the JBP needs the needles to make food for growth. Only a tree in final stages of development, when it is "show ready" should all 2nd year needles be pulled. Younger trees in development you should leave some of the older needles in strategic areas to make back budding more likely.

JBP don't seem to "wake up" from dormancy until we have a week or more of warm days above 65F in spring. I live near Lake Michigan, and some years I have a very cool spring. I might not get late frost, but cold winds off the lake will give me 55 F days when someone 10 miles west of me has a 75 F day. Years that I have a cold - late spring are the years I skip decandling. This is because the tree won't have enough time to grow and recover from decandling.

My suggestion is only for those of us who are in the "northern half" of the USA. Those of you in zones 6 and warmer, don't have this issue. Also I definitely have a Lake effect problem, which if our poster is close to the lake also, he may have it too.

Some Chicago growers will say I am over cautious in my warning, but I am just sharing what works for me, and what doesn't work. So for me, fall bud pruning can really weaken my JBP, possibly kill it if not enough needles remain. And decandling every year is does not work for me.

You get better ramification if you get your tree full and bushy and vigorous. It will often back bud when vigorous without any candle pruning. Get it bushy for a year or two, then do the early summer candle pruning. Save the one flush pine techniques for the one flush pines.
 
I was born and raised in the Chicago area and I can remember a few years of frost coming in late September. :-(
 
I am located in Chicago area, Zone 5 b. I thought by

Mr DrB please update your profile so everyone will know next time. As has been said, most everything depends on your location and the species. And welcome.
 
Thank you for your responses. I think Leo makes a good argument for caution.
 
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