question from spring display

[dick benbow]

I went with a very old scroll, 135 some years and a relatively new stone found last year on a local river. To me it represents a melting snow and a time when the earth is joyously covered with flowers.
My question is this. As I view the scroll, the tree peony moves from the left to the right indicating it's movement dictates it's location on the left of the tokonoma. BUt if you look at the little sparrow, it looks boldly to the left. what dictates the scrolls position, tree or bird...

 

[Poink88]

No input re: your question but, can you take a shot of the stone with the current front as top and the new front the current left (9 o'clock)? Or maybe even have the front from 11 o'clock.

I think the white (snow) should be at the top and hi-lite veining flowing down from the snow cap. JMHO.

 

[dick benbow]

Appreciate your thoughts.
Here's the reason I chose the direction I did ...

When the snow starts to melt around here, it seems to start at the top and move down on many of the lower peaks. Even in the heat of july you find pockets in the mid sections where the sun does not reach. So I think my choice was to display, what was seen from past experiences ... melting snow from the top down.

Now if we are talking just a winter snow scene, with snow thru out the range of top to bottom,
I'd have to agree with you.

I think if the top had more of a dramatic peak like the attached photo indicating a higher elevation, your suggestion would be spot on.

This display craze of mine is definetely forcing me to pay attention to things I saw but didn't think about until now.

 

[rockm]

I think this is a good display. There is some contrast between the rock and the scroll that makes them play off of one another.

However, I think the peony pictured is a little overpowering for such a combination. That scroll would have a hard time in any display as it is a "screamer" to a certain extent. It is florid and certainly not understated.

The rock, however, IS subtle and its subdued and beautiful details are lost next to that powerful, florid scroll.

The two are OK together, but are better appreciated alone, I think. I also think the scroll is on the wrong side of the display. The sparrow looks OUT of the composition (essentially ignoring what's being shown back to its right side) which lessens its impact. If he were looking INTO the display, it would influence the viewer to look in also The scroll has a "circular" pattern of viewing if taken from the bottom edge up--the flower and foliage move to the right, up to the sparrow, which redirects the viewer back to the left.

I also think the rock might also better present itself with the "snow" on top, as that's where people sense that snow, even melting snow, should be.

If this were my display, I would use scroll with simpler, less over-the-top flowers. Something like this, says spring is coming and doesn't scream:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7367-Japane...9303185?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item51ab7ace91

or this (althought this is more summerish)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-HA...6778833?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item20d1adc151

All this boils down to personal taste, however. What gets to me, doesn't get to others and vice versa.

 

[dick benbow]

thanks for your input on the bird's direction in the scroll. and i agree that personal tastes do enter into it. "m wondering if a had a tenpai on the shelf on the left that the bird was looking at, if that would matter? I appreciate input because it helps me neutralize my own strong input to be sensitive to others who may be quests and viewing. keeping in mind their anticipated response, I think is an impotant consideration. spring is about the only time i can bring the aged scroll out. all my other ones are very contemporay.

your ebay examples do portray your point while that less is more

 

[jk_lewis]

I think that if the bird were closer to the left edge of the scroll than it is, it might matter more. As it is, it is gazing into a large (albeit blank) area of the scroll and so can be divorced from the rest of the composition.

I too think you need some stronger object in the display than that rock.

 

[Smoke]

When a scroll is used in a formal presentation in an alchove (Tokonoma) It is intended to be viewed with tea. These type of scrolls tend to be called tea ceremony scrolls and are very simple in flavor. A tea ceremony scroll would never have such a large flower in it, nor would it present such a large flower with a bird.

Directional elements on scrolls containing birds usually depict movement while in flight. Birds sitting on limbs and branches offer no movement marker becuase it is believed that birds land any which way they wish, yet the branch they land on has the movement, which for all intents and purposes cannot be changed. A shrike landing or depicted on a stem with right handed movement is right handed whether the bird is sitting on it left or right.

Birds fly out of a scene in fall and into a scene in spring, just like they do in real life. So one might see geese flying out of a scroll in Fall.

This particular scroll of Dick's is a right handed movement scroll. It does not matter which way the bird sits. It is not the focal point of the scroll. The peony is.

In this particular display the flower scroll is just plain inappropriate to be displayed with a distant view stone. This stone is a distant view while the scroll is a super near view. They do not harmonize at all. For the display to really be great it would have to be an atmospheric scroll, depicting sky, or a weather phenomenon. Maybe a distant view sun with whispy clouds and a soaring hawk or eagle.

These would be some examples of Atmospheric scrolls and could depict evening with the moon. The butterflies are nice but probably also too near and the swallow is a little out of place with a mountain. The waterfall would be redundent with the water features on the stone, but it could be displayed more properly with the scroll centered in the alcove and the stone centered below it.

I for one admire your dicipline and educational prowess. Thanks for posting and opening up your heart for discussion.

 

[dick benbow]

I am so appreciative for the clear insight. I'm trying to learn and get lots of books to contemplate, but it doesn't get any better then to have someone take the time to share their insights. THANK-YOU!

 

[Smoke]

BTW....

I would be willing to wager your scroll is Chinese in origen and not Japanese. It has all the signs of Chinese origens.

 

[Klytus]

I would hesitate to use that stone with that scroll,maybe a small gilded cage with the door ajar.

 

[Klytus]

If the stone was raised on a tall dark wooden daiza with sympathetically spaced fluting then you could use this print below the level of the stone and to it's left.

http://disseminate.objectrepository.org/file/level2/10622/30051001062295

 

[kakejiku]

鷹　Taka or hawk is associated with winter season....Shrike with Autumn....
Suzume or Ugui is a safe bet for Spring....

Peony is one of the four gentleman...but Ume (and sakura) always work well with Spring...

 

[dick benbow]

Thanks Jonathan, it's funny (to me) the one japanese word I know is for hawk (tom-bay) and you used the english name for it. The others I have no idea what they are. LOL


So much to learn so little time....

 

[rockm]

Shrike is also known as the Butcher Bird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-headed_Shrike

It is a widely spread (there are species in North America as well as Japan) non-raptor predatory species infamous for impaling its dead prey--mice and big insects on the thorns of bushes to keep it from shifting around while they tear it up and eat it , to store it. It has Bushido connotations in Japan.

From what I've seen, the Shrike is a common motif in scroll drawing. This is a particularly good one I ran across today:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Ha...9689249?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item2c6e55f9a1

 

[Smoke]

Thats not a shrike.

 

[rockm]

Yeah, it is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull-headed_Shrike

 

[Poink88]

rockm...I am no expert but I don't think the shrike pic on the wiki link matches the one on the scroll. The bird in the scroll is falcon like to me.

 

[Klytus]

They made do with what they had,if they had more they would be glad but they didn't and we do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=Fc_-icFHwQo&NR=1

 

[rockm]

"I am no expert but I don't think the shrike pic on the wiki link matches the one on the scroll. The bird in the scroll is falcon like to me."

OK. I'm wrong.

 

[kakejiku]

Maybe this is closer to a shrike....
http://wallscroll.blogspot.com/2013/05/shrike-kakejiku.html