Root Over Trunk, Really ???

[A Random User]

Ok, so in a previous thread about another tree ficus I had mentioned the following
regarding planting ficus onto old stumps and theoretically doing a Root over Trunk.
Which in the end the ficus roots ususally end up engulfing the trunk.

Usually when you do this you use an old palm tree stump...
and carve out a bowl shape hole in the top, then plant your
tree in it... I would also get a long bit and drill a hole down
through the middle, just to allow it to drain, until the roots reach
the bottom.
Because the Palm tree is more like fiber than wood, the roots literally
grow down inside the trunk... as well as over the outside of the trunk.
The palm tree stump rots away in a short amount of time, leaving only
the ficus roots...
I don't have a palm tree stump that I can use, so instead I am going to
use a Buttonwood stump... Well... actually it is a trunk from one of my
Buttonwoods that died 4 yrs ago when we had a freak freeze early in
the winter. It sucks really bad when you loose a $700 tree !!!
So, don't try exactly what I am going to do at home...
Hey, at least it will not be a total waste.

Link to the discussion here...
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?12248-A-Real-Solution-to-a-Problem/page2

The Pics posted here are of the Buttonwood trunk that is now dead... Being sized and
carved in preparation, to receive the Green Island Ficus I will be planting on it.

 

[A Random User]

Now what I have done with this is actually hollow out a indentation, kinda
like a cup in towards the top of the trunk. I also hollowed out channels within
the trunk seeing that buttonwoods are very dense, this will allow the roots
to travel down within the dead trunk as well...

I completely bare rooted the Green Island and inserted it within the carved out
indentation, without any soil. While inserting it I did pull some of the longer roots
down in through the holes. The whole complete planting deadwood in all has been
planted and wired down into a bonsai pot with bonsai soil. The long roots from the
ficus protrude down into the bonsai soil below.

The planting of the ficus within the carved out indentation without any soil, was on
purpose, to in essence force the plant to send out roots to try and find water in order
for it to survive. I watered this plant just as I did all my other plants, every other day,
and it leveled off, and sent out alot of new roots.

I have since styled the whole thing and will post up those pics ASAP...

 

[Neli]

I have a picture for you from our ranch how this happens with strangler figs in nature.
Figs are famous for fattening roots faster than branches. In China Taiwan that is used to create interesting trunks from roots.
And here is a simple method to create trunk from roots using moss.
Good luck and post updates.
I guess you have high humidity in Florida swamps...so roots might develop naturally. I normally cover with a thin layer of muck the stone/trunk to promote more root formation.

 

[thams]

Definitely keep us updated - very cool! I tried to find pictures of Jim Smith's Green Island over Cypress knees, but couldn't find any... Looks like the website is no longer active, but the trees were awesome!

 

[Poink88]

I have since styled the whole thing and will post up those pics ASAP...

Anxiously waiting...

Looks very promising btw.

 

[GrimLore]

We have several pieces of timber drying for a couple of seasons for similar purposes. I am not looking to do root over but that does look like it is coming along nicely

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Very impressed with the carving and burning/charring of the dead wood. I am anticipating more of this procession. Thanks for sharing!

 

[A Random User]

Here is the tree as of today...
I wired it out last fall, and as mentioned before we are
currently going through a period where all of my ficus are
dropping old leaves and replacing them with new, so It looks
a little sparse.

This years work is going to be all about building the top of the tree
It will not end up as high as my leader currently is, I am growing it out
to help thicken the trunk. I will also spend time developing 2nd and 3rd
branches...

Next yr I am hoping to have a very full canopy... for next year I will concentrate
totally on aerial roots. I might even end up putting this in a makeshift greenhouse
for the whole yr to really help promote new roots.

 

[Cadillactaste]

You've really taken it to amazing lengths so far...will love to continue to watch the progression on this tree!

 

[A Random User]

So...
How many other folks will I see be trying
this technique ???

It's really fun and an awesome way to deal with
some ok material !!!

 

[edprocoat]

Sawgrass, years ago I found a piece of white driftwood on a spit of a beach in Hudson Florida. It was about 2 feet high and twisted at the bottom like it was snapped off where it was growing from. It was hollow through the middle almost 2 inches wide from top to bottom. A few weeks later I bought a Ficus Benjamina at the old Scotty's lumber yard store in Elfers out of New Port Richey that I was going to chop up into smaller trees. It was 3/4's an inch thick at the base and less than a 1/4 inch where the foliage started at about 26 inches up the pencil trunk. I ended up sticking it down through the hole in driftwood and it grew happily 2 years gaining a lot of foliage up top and everyone who saw it thought it was some ancient tree. Then it just dropped all its leaves and died! I tore it all apart and looking at the inside of the trunk there was this orange pink growth that was eating at the old driftwood which became more yellow near the base and I think that is what killed it. I did not treat the driftwood with anything and that may have been the problem although it was hard as a rock when I picked it up.

ed

 

[A Random User]

Sawgrass, years ago I found a piece of white driftwood on a spit of a beach in Hudson Florida. It was about 2 feet high and twisted at the bottom like it was snapped off where it was growing from. It was hollow through the middle almost 2 inches wide from top to bottom. A few weeks later I bought a Ficus Benjamina at the old Scotty's lumber yard store in Elfers out of New Port Richey that I was going to chop up into smaller trees. It was 3/4's an inch thick at the base and less than a 1/4 inch where the foliage started at about 26 inches up the pencil trunk. I ended up sticking it down through the hole in driftwood and it grew happily 2 years gaining a lot of foliage up top and everyone who saw it thought it was some ancient tree. Then it just dropped all its leaves and died! I tore it all apart and looking at the inside of the trunk there was this orange pink growth that was eating at the old driftwood which became more yellow near the base and I think that is what killed it. I did not treat the driftwood with anything and that may have been the problem although it was hard as a rock when I picked it up.

ed

Ed, I wonder if it was some type of spores that had somehow found themselves
attached to the wood while out at sea...
Often, they will dry up when on land, and then begin to grow again when watered.
Like when you watered the tree.

 

[GrimLore]

Ed, I wonder if it was some type of spores that had somehow found themselves
attached to the wood while out at sea...
Often, they will dry up when on land, and then begin to grow again when watered.
Like when you watered the tree.

When we use(d) collected wood of any type in aquariums we soak the piece in a strong bleach solution for 2 to 3 days. We then place the piece out to dry in the sun until it is totally dry... Same with collected rocks now that I think about it as most of the wood required an anchor.

Grimmy

 

[A Random User]

Not many responses to this thread, which is kinda sad seeing that there is a lot
that really can be learned from it !!!
Oh- well I guess if I glued some Maple leaves or grafted juniper foliage to it,
it would of had a million hits by now.

 

[Neli]

Just do it...He he he! If you want more responses...or just say...maple over rock...and explain that the name of the fig is Miss Maple.
I love figs....especially the way they style them in Asia.

 

[Neli]

Now on a serious note...I would have not pushed the roots through restricted places like hollows...eventually they will thicken at get cut by the restriction.
2. I would have tried to tie the roots to the trunk and make them fuse...
3 I would have tried to carve some channels even for some of the branches to go into so they fuse with the wood. Like the first right branch.
But it looks good and I showed it to a friend and he said he is going to try and make the same.
David Cortizas has some figs fused to a stump on IBF...and is looking good.

 

[Vin]

Those leaves are not that far from the natural buttonwood shape which I'm sure was part of the plan. I'm curious to know how long you think the stump will hold up before rotting? Also, do you think it's possible to create a "Root Over Trunk" with juniper as well?

 

[A Random User]

Now on a serious note...I would have not pushed the roots through restricted places like hollows...eventually they will thicken at get cut by the restriction.
2. I would have tried to tie the roots to the trunk and make them fuse...
3 I would have tried to carve some channels even for some of the branches to go into so they fuse with the wood. Like the first right branch.
But it looks good and I showed it to a friend and he said he is going to try and make the same.
David Cortizas has some figs fused to a stump on IBF...and is looking good.

Hi Neli, thanks for the reply...
The roots of a ficus will not get restricted, they will just grow out and around and will
eventually just engulf what ever is in their way. As far as roots fusing, this tree is already
sending out all kinds of aerial roots, and will continue to do so, They will end up end up growing
and taking hold of everything, so no need to tie them. If you look at the 3rd and 4th pics in
post 8 you will see some of the roots already beginning to take over.

 

[edprocoat]

Ed, I wonder if it was some type of spores that had somehow found themselves
attached to the wood while out at sea...
Often, they will dry up when on land, and then begin to grow again when watered.
Like when you watered the tree.

I lost track of this lol ! I think it was something like that or some kind of mold maybe? I dont know for sure but I think it was what killed the tree as the trunk was soft and squishy where it contacted the stuff.

ed

 

[A Random User]

Those leaves are not that far from the natural buttonwood shape which I'm sure was part of the plan. I'm curious to know how long you think the stump will hold up before rotting? Also, do you think it's possible to create a "Root Over Trunk" with juniper as well?

Thanks for the reply... In all actuality, I didn't plan on the leaves being similar to the
b-woods, but after I put it all together and stepped back, it did hit me. I always said
b-woods have the best of both worlds, awesome foliage and awesome deadwood.

As far as Root over Trunk with a Juni...
My only question would be is there an incident in nature where a Juni would grow on
top of another trunk ??? I am not sure... It does not sound feasible, but strange things
do happen in nature.

Now if you are willing to suspend actual reality and not concern yourself with what
could happen in nature, then go for it !!! Not every thing in Bonsai has to be natural, or even
found in nature. But, understand that there are going to be a lot of folks for whom reality
is an essential part, and they are not going to understand... and they are going to let you
know, in not always the most pleasant of ways !!!


See with Ficus, the Strangler Fig does actually do this in nature. A bird will carry the fruit from
a ficus to another tree, leaving it behind, and it will actually start growing right on top of it.
I might be 30 feet in the air, but it will send down roots and will eventually take over the tree.