Rules of proportion

[berobinson82]

Hi there.

Last night I was contemplating the proportions of a newly acquired yew. I was considering the final height and wanted to follow the 6:1 rule. That made me wonder if there's any sort of guideline for determining how wide a tree should be compared to the trunk.

Would the ratio be dependent on style?

Thanks for your thoughts.

-B

 

[Brian Underwood]

Very much so. The 6:1 rule is just an arbitrary general guideline. If you have a bunjin tree, it will have a ratio more like 10-20:1. What really matters is what looks right for the species and style of tree you wish to create. The "rules" for proportions of tree height/thickness to pot width/depth are more useful and apply more of the time. Have fun and post a picture to see what everyone thinks the proportions of your tree should be!

 

[berobinson82]

Ugh... I wish I had a better picture that wasn't so distorted from perspective. The pot is 18" across on the inside. The trunk is decent at 4inches in diameter before digging too deep into the soil. This makes it look like the golf ball is the same size as the trunk which I assure you; it's not. Found this in the "TLC" section of a nursery on the way out. Consequently it was 50% off. That's about how much I've reduced the height of the tree also.



Thanks for the reply.

 

[JudyB]

berob, what type of style do you envision for this tree? Looks like you have several options, but you'll have to answer that question before you can determine the answer to your first question...

I'm not familiar with yew, so I can't really suggest anything with confidence....

 

[berobinson82]

JudyB - I really haven't spent TOO much time with this tree since it's a new to the family but in the back of my mind images like these are pleasing:




Or the tree on the right here:



I'm not certain whether the second trunk is going to become deadwood or incorporated into a twin trunk.

 

[JudyB]

oh, I like that first idea, and looks like you could pull it off fairly well within what the tree has to offer.

As far as proportion, I think that each tree needs to go in the direction that it shows you, and that proportion will be different depending on where that takes you. You'll know if it looks absurd or wrong as you go along.

 

[Dav4]

As far as proportion, I think that each tree needs to go in the direction that it shows you, and that proportion will be different depending on where that takes you. You'll know if it looks absurd or wrong as you go along.

Judy nailed it...if the tree looks "right", do you really care what the ratio is? When I initially style a tree, I'm never consciously considering final height as part of a calculation...it's the image I'm after, based on what the material offers, that will determine the final height. Good luck with that yew...it looks like you have a descent trunk to play with there.

 

[Gene Deci]

If you are not going to jin the top you have to consider branches (for the new apex as well as side branches) before you think about height ratios when you chop a tree. It is hard to see from the pictures where a good chop point might be.

 

[Harunobu]

1:6 is a really high ratio. It's not really realistic in many cases.
As for bunjin, I don't like them anywey personally. But a tree is strong because of a certain character. Not all trees are strong because they have such a thick trunk. Bunjin do something else. If you have raw material that depends on trunk thickness, you should try to see how close you can get to 1:6. Patience is of course important and growing out the raw material to get the trunk ratio you want may take a long time.
But it doesn't make sense to measure up your raw material and chop it so it exactly meets the 1:6 criteria.

 

[october]

I agree with Judy that the first example pic of the style you might be going for can be pulled off with this tree. I will say that your possible example yew in the shallow pot is a very nice bonsai. Also, I don't think I have ever seen a tree that pulls off, so successfully, the one trunk that eminates into 3 trunks. This is quite unusual and remarkable in bonsai. Whomever the artist was, pulled it off flawlessly and avoided cutting it down to one workable trunk. Also, the use of a quite ornate and long pot, somewhat rare with a conifer, has also worked out very well. A nice overall image to pursue with your yew.

Rob

 

[bretts]

Hi there.

Last night I was contemplating the proportions of a newly acquired yew. I was considering the final height and wanted to follow the 6:1 rule. That made me wonder if there's any sort of guideline for determining how wide a tree should be compared to the trunk.

Would the ratio be dependent on style?

Thanks for your thoughts.

-B

Hi B
There is no 6:1 rule but if you look at all the styles of bonsai and in fact very mature trees you will find that 6:1 is the average of trunk to height thickness.
Of course Judy and Dav4 are correct in what they say that it is only about what looks good. But often being able to explain why it looks good can be very beneficial.

If we take 6:1 as the average then under this at say 4:1 the tree is what we may call masculine or close view. It exudes power and strength. Then a tree above 6:1 would be seen as a more gracefull tree or a far view. So we can vere to either side of 6:1 and it will change the way we see the composition. The most important thing is that the rest of the tree tells the same story as the trunk to hieght ratio. We don't want to put masculine branches on a gracefull trunk. That is like a person wearing a digital watch in a Cowboy movie it just doesn't fit.
There are a few ways we can use this knowledge Brent Waltson suggests that if you are stuck for an idea with a tree then start at the 6:1 radiate this around all the branches and cut everything outside this off. This may be great when you have hundreds of trees to work over but for us just picturing this 6:1 may help to find an image even above or below this ratio. It is also a very good technique for beginers to use as they often create trees that are too tall when first starting.
Another way is what I find happening most often with me these days is just double checking that you are on the right track. I will find a form and style in a tree and set a plan. Then on the more important trees I might run a tape measure over my plan to see if my eyes are playing any tricks on me. This is most helpful in showing how much room is left to regrow a leader or such and still be around the ratio you picture today.
It is very interesting to put the ruler over trees in nature and also the bonsai. You will find that your eye will occasionally play tricks on you and working out why is very interesting and I believe very helpful in bonsai design.
I think a read through this will be very helpful
http://andyrutledge.com/book/