Scotts pine (bunjin/slant) from a young yamadori (approx. 15 YO

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Those soil bacteria are there already. Inoculation is useless. Improving conditions is the way to go.

Leaf sprays with QST 713 are different. You don't use that as inoculum but swamp a plant with bacteria to outcompete fungi. This won't last but it gives a temporary effect.

Part of those conditions can be man-made. While I agree that most inoculants arrive readily by air, I also believe that it really helps adding some to the soil and plant itself to kickstart them.
If the conditions have been adverse for one type of organism, it'll die and it will need time to come back (if it's even introduced within a certain timespan). Introducing it manually can speed up that process quite a bit.
Then there's nutrients, chemical or organic, and all kinds of biocides that could affect the microbiome of a pot.
Soil conditions in a bonsai pot are sometimes incomparable to potting soils or woodlands; the changes bonsai soil goes through in a single day can be too much for wildtype microbes that are accustomed to more easy going conditions.

Take our own native paddestoel met witte stippen (amanita muscaria) that is a major helper to sylvestris pines, it only fruits in fall and it's easily killed when conditions are less than ideal. If the culture dies in spring, it's going to take until at least autumn until new spores arrive with the wind. Adding spores in spring could help the fungal culture grow throughout summer.

I'm not saying everyone should get lab grown spores and I'm not denying that they arrive naturally, I'm just saying I can see the benefits of having starter cultures around. It's not entirely a waste of money.

@Mike Corazzi you just don't see the mycelium, that doesn't mean it's not there ;-) I made a very non-scientific article a couple years ago about the rhizosphere of pines (I think it was called 'a quick look in the rhizosphere of pines' or something). It should be in the resources section somewhere.
Even ethanol disinfection didn't kill all the microbes.

 

[Bnana]

It's true that if you have a soil that's nearly sterile an inoculation might help but a bit of soil from a garden has a diversity an order of magnitude higher than these products, including spores of huge numbers of fungi.
If you repot a tree everything you need is on the roots, even is you bare root them (unless you dip them in disinfectant).

The mycorrhiza in these products are often species that are easy to grow, those are not the ones that are best for your plant (often even reduce growth). In the example it's even the completely wrong group.

 

[clem]

some news, the tree didn't like the repotting in spring 2020, probably mainly the fact that i wired the roots..
It stopped growing (candles), so i put it in the ground with 100% draining particles, with the hope to save it.

The 1rst branche died, but the tree survived.
May 2023 ->


May 2024 ->


My new project, without the 1rst branche alive, but still here as a jin ->


I removed the dead bark of the 1rst branche in May ->


it wans't the good period to remove living bark near to the trunk, the resin flowed for 3 weeks, but it is finished now.

I keep alive and i don't pinch the big left branch (sacrifice branch) to developp the tapper of the trunk (below this branch).

Next spring, normally, i'm going to repot it in a smaller terracotta pot. I'm going there gradually, slowly but surely. My first goal is to not kill it.

 

[cody94withrow]

Lucky.... I'd love to find a massive one like this....

 

[TiMe25]

Hello,

I am the new one here and I have looked this post.

Can you explain me how did you acheave to bend the 1st branch (now converted to jin) from the "yamadori - up" position to a narrow angle down keeping the branck alive ? Its there any special technique, and preferable time of the year as I do not have a succes ? My branches always dye back even then are not bended so much as yours ? Even using raffia I did not have a success.

Thanks in advance.
TiMe

 

[Paradox]

Hello,

I am the new one here and I have looked this post.

Can you explain me how did you acheave to bend the 1st branch (now converted to jin) from the "yamadori - up" position to a narrow angle down keeping the branck alive ? Its there any special technique, and preferable time of the year as I do not have a succes ? My branches always dye back even then are not bended so much as yours ? Even using raffia I did not have a success.

Thanks in advance.
TiMe

What time of year are you applying wire and bending them? This should only be done in fall and early winter. Where I am, that kind of work is done mostly October-December. It can be done up until February if it's a mild winter and the tree won't freeze. March is too late because the buds start to swell

 

[clem]

Hello,

I am the new one here and I have looked this post.

Can you explain me how did you acheave to bend the 1st branch (now converted to jin) from the "yamadori - up" position to a narrow angle down keeping the branck alive ? Its there any special technique, and preferable time of the year as I do not have a succes ? My branches always dye back even then are not bended so much as yours ? Even using raffia I did not have a success.

Thanks in advance.
TiMe

hello, i just wired the branch down (important : the first turn of wire above the shoulder of the branch so as not to tear the branch downwards) and the next year, I put a ring of wire to fix de branch ->


i did that in May 2018 and June 2019, which are not the best periods to proceed (September is said to be the best for wiring, bending trunks).
The branches of this young scotts pines were very flexible, that's why i could bend them so much downwards.

There is also a technique which consists of splitting the branch (on the shoulder) to enable its bending but I've never tried it because I find it super risky (but people who perform it say that it works very well with raphia after splitting)

Do you have pics to show the bend on your branches ? I'm not very experienced but i find it strange that the branches always die.

 

[TiMe25]

Hi,

Thank you for reply.

From answers I relized my following mistakes:

1. I made this in mid June or even begining July,
2. I did not perform this in steps.

Working on trunk/branches at the wrong time was most probably leading it to die off. Just now I realised, as I have also some bigger niwaki - also Scots pine - where I have been bending even thicker branckes, but always until end of March or end of Spept/October.

Unfortunately I don't have pictures (I did not take it) to share it. I never tried "split" technique either, but I saw on some junipers worked well.

Thanks you a lot Clem and Paradox for sharing the knowledge.

 

[clem]

Hi,

Thank you for reply.

From answers I relized my following mistakes:

1. I made this in mid June or even begining July,

I asked on a forum why not wiring or bending branches in summer ? I was answered that the bark can easily peel off with cambium in summer. And in spring & summer, you also have a lot of resin dripping on wounds. That's what i learned...

 

[TiMe25]

I asked on a forum why not wiring or bending branches in summer ? I was answered that the bark can easily peel off with cambium in summer. And in spring & summer, you also have a lot of resin dripping on wounds. That's what i learned...

Same I learned .....

Whats the good side of my recent story that the tree survived. Actually the branch planned to be "sacrifised" survived ..... the tree made diffrent decision ... so I need to re-think the styling as I removed dried off branch. Most probably I will work on this tree in March. Just want that recover it well and I will have enough time to think about the style.

 

[clem]

Same I learned .....

Whats the good side of my recent story that the tree survived. Actually the branch planned to be "sacrifised" survived ..... the tree made diffrent decision ... so I need to re-think the styling as I removed dried off branch. Most probably I will work on this tree in March. Just want that recover it well and I will have enough time to think about the style.

ok, you can show your tree evolution here, on this forum, if you want...

Bnut is already a very active forum but the more we show our trees evolutions, the more interesting it is...

 

[clem]

Some news..
In the middle of september, I split the branch in two in order to make it more flexible and finer. The goal, if it survives, is to create a lower branch to have clouds of foliage in the first third of the trunk





I wrapped it in 2 layers of raffia.


i will wire it next year


yesterday, i removed misplaced or excess branches and then i wired the tree (except the lower branch with raffia)

before / after



Maybe this virtual later (but i'm not sure) ->

 

[clem]

I like this tree very much, very elegant IMO and the bark is starting to have character.
Zooms

 

[clem]

The tree without the left branch (virtual with its actual foliage) ->


Another virtual of the tree without the left branch & a longer branch on the right (i prefer) ->


A last virtual with a much longer right branch to dress the trunk lower (i prefer because there is a better asymmetry and the first half of the trunk is well dressed, not bare
)->

 

[clem]

I removed, the rafia, after 1 year. The branch is still alive, but the result is horrible : bulges, swelling, inversion of taper. It would have been far better without any raphia (tourniquet effect) but i dunno if the branche would have survived without it.

I find that this branch still brings aesthetic interest because it dresses the trunk at the bottom so I will keep it, and try, gradually, to remove pieces of ridges with pliers/cutter to make it thinner. This will be another challenge, another source of motivation.



The tree before -> after.



The branch swelling is not visible on the front face since the branch passes behind the trunk (criminal branch).
The branch comes out at roughly the same place where the previous branch (jin) came out and brings greenery to the bottom right, but obviously I would have preferred to keep the right branch alive, which has become a jin.

 

[River's Edge]

I removed, the rafia, after 1 year. The branch is still alive, but the result is horrible : bulges, swelling, inversion of taper. It would have been far better without any raphia (tourniquet effect) but i dunno if the branche would have survived without it.

I find that this branch still brings aesthetic interest because it dresses the trunk at the bottom so I will keep it, and try, gradually, to remove pieces of ridges with pliers/cutter to make it thinner. This will be another challenge, another source of motivation.

View attachment 614493
View attachment 614494
The tree before -> after.
View attachment 614495
View attachment 614496
View attachment 614497
The branch swelling is not visible on the front face since the branch passes behind the trunk (criminal branch).
The branch comes out at roughly the same place where the previous branch (jin) came out and brings greenery to the bottom right, but obviously I would have preferred to keep the right branch alive, which has become a jin.

Just a comment on the use of raffia when heavy bending. The purpose of the raffia is to prevent the branch/cambium from splitting during the actual bending process. Once the bend is complete and has rested for a bit, it is best to remove the raffia. The wire will hold the bend in place without restricting flow in the cambium. The raffia provided a buffer and extra strength to hold the bark and cambium in place during the bend.
I would suggest that the major bulge was created by leaving three branches coming off at the same junction on the branch in the lower part of the bend. More of a knuckle formation affecting the rest of the branch. Just some thoughts when consider future heavy bending.

From a style and aesthetic point of view, would you consider a literati design with the removal of the heavier branch you have bent. Or the creation of a jin from that branch along with the lower jin. The slender trunk and gentle movement could easily look quite natural in that design.
Two points for considering that change is the outcome of the bend and the thickness of the branch when considering its position on the trunk. One could also consider that the branch exit from an inside curve of the trunk movement when viewed from the selected front.
just some thoughts for consideration.

 

[Ruddigger]

I don’t usually raffia pines. You could have achieved your goal by simply making a 50% saw cut on the underside of your branch and guy wiring it down.

 

[clem]

Just a comment on the use of raffia when heavy bending. The purpose of the raffia is to prevent the branch/cambium from splitting during the actual bending process. Once the bend is complete and has rested for a bit, it is best to remove the raffia. The wire will hold the bend in place without restricting flow in the cambium. The raffia provided a buffer and extra strength to hold the bark and cambium in place during the bend.
I would suggest that the major bulge was created by leaving three branches coming off at the same junction on the branch in the lower part of the bend. More of a knuckle formation affecting the rest of the branch. Just some thoughts when consider future heavy bending.

From a style and aesthetic point of view, would you consider a literati design with the removal of the heavier branch you have bent. Or the creation of a jin from that branch along with the lower jin. The slender trunk and gentle movement could easily look quite natural in that design.
Two points for considering that change is the outcome of the bend and the thickness of the branch when considering its position on the trunk. One could also consider that the branch exit from an inside curve of the trunk movement when viewed from the selected front.
just some thoughts for consideration.

I agree with you, I'll try to improve the branche with time (for my personnal expérience), and my final project is to let the other branches grow, to have foliage on the lower part of the trunk ->


The same as this other tree (not mine) with branches that start from the very top and go down very low to dress the trunk ->


I was also suggested to do an approach graft to create a new lower branch... It is something to think about.