Sean’s Umes

Looks like vegetative buds are present in most of those shoots. The trouble with Ume is that they don’t always reliably open.
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Thanks @Brian Van Fleet, I guess I’m now seeing what I’ve seen documented online (including on your blog) regarding branches getting longer as the tree progress due to growth only occurring on the tips of branches. I’ll report back in spring.
We’re having a really weird autumn, as you can see my umes want to flower but are still losing their leaves 🤔
 
Question for the experienced Ume growers
@Brian Van Fleet @Canada Bonsai @River's Edge @Pitoon

Is my understanding correct that a branch with only flower buds present will not form a vegetative bud/shoot at all if there isn’t a vegetative bud present at time of flowering?
There are a number of branches on my umes that have masses of flower buds forming but no other buds present.

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Here’s an example where there is a big central bud (which I understand is a vegetative bud) and then a smaller bud alongside it (which I believe is a flower bud)

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Please be aware that vegetative buds can and often form beneath to the side of floral buds even after the flower bud opens. When the flower drops they often begin to become apparent. At least that is my experience. I have seen this happen after frost has affected the early bloom.
They are also known to be unreliable for opening as mentioned by Brian. I think this underscores the importance of apical pruning and partial defoliation to create side branching on a regular basis for more reliable development.
 
Thank you @River's Edge, appreciate your insights. I’ve had very good ramification building progress over the past 2 seasons with these plants using partial defoliation. I’ll share some updates once the trees are leafless. This is the first season they’d produced many flower buds though so hadn't had any bud confusion until now.

@Dav4 I see you 👀 Apologies for leaving you out of my initial “experienced Ume growers” list 🫣
 
Thank you @River's Edge, appreciate your insights. I’ve had very good ramification building progress over the past 2 seasons with these plants using partial defoliation. I’ll share some updates once the trees are leafless. This is the first season they’d produced many flower buds though so hadn't had any bud confusion until now.

@Dav4 I see you 👀 Apologies for leaving you out of my initial “experienced Ume growers” list 🫣
No worries, Sean. You definitely tagged the right people above ;).
 
Let me start off by saying you have some amazing trees so happy for you. Your thread is very inspiring. It’s funny because in the first video it shows that bending the branches until the snap would be unthinkable but yet very affective. Three weeks ago when shaping my little tree I accidentally went too far on one branch and it cracked. I was so mad at myself but in stead of cutting it I decided to leave it. Well to my surprise it’s is now almost fully healed in a short time. Next season in July I will attempt a lot more branches with this method.
Thank you so much and hope and wish you all the best with your Mume trees.
Michael
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Let me start off by saying you have some amazing trees so happy for you. Your thread is very inspiring. It’s funny because in the first video it shows that bending the branches until the snap would be unthinkable but yet very affective. Three weeks ago when shaping my little tree I accidentally went too far on one branch and it cracked. I was so mad at myself but in stead of cutting it I decided to leave it. Well to my surprise it’s is now almost fully healed in a short time. Next season in July I will attempt a lot more branches with this method.
Thank you so much and hope and wish you all the best with your Mume trees.
Michael
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You are far too kind! I don’t see them as being amazing just yet but I have some high hopes!
Yes snapping branches seems so crazy, but once you break a few by mistake and watch as they not only survive but continue to grow is even crazier! I still haven’t purposefully snapped any right through but do on occasion “crease” them to get 90° bends. It’s a real Ume super power 👌🏻
 
1 is preferred 2 is my second choice. Think either of these would look good. Number 2 could provide better taper though. Nice progress in the ground 👍
 
Why not keep #1 + #2 & having #1 follow the wonderful half circle curve of #2 (?)
 
I like #1. In my opinion, it is more compatible with the direction the base directs my eyes, and the taper is already better developed there. I'd chop back the other branch into low branching, plus it will help heal the wound. Played with AI.
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Definitely #1 without a doubt

2 years in the ground, look at the amount of wood it put on this past season! 🤯
I know what you mean. I put mine in the ground, middle of last year grow season and it grew moderately. However, this year it really beefed up. I would love for it to go another year but I'm following the every other year dig up, work nebari, place back in ground regimen
 
@SeanS ... quick question for you. I know you're ume are sprouting like no tomorrow... read through your thread... so no need to graft anything... but also remember in one of the posts you mentioned approach graft you've successfully done. Did you try thread graft? Do you think it could work? ... or you think the hard cut before buds start swelling is the right way to go. I have couple of those but I already bought them quite leggy... didn't do too much last year as I repotted them but time to start working on canopy next spring. So just looking for some advise on what's next best step is.

Appreciate any advise...
 
@SeanS ... quick question for you. I know you're ume are sprouting like no tomorrow... read through your thread... so no need to graft anything... but also remember in one of the posts you mentioned approach graft you've successfully done. Did you try thread graft? Do you think it could work? ... or you think the hard cut before buds start swelling is the right way to go. I have couple of those but I already bought them quite leggy... didn't do too much last year as I repotted them but time to start working on canopy next spring. So just looking for some advise on what's next best step is.

Appreciate any advise...
@Adamski77 I’ve only worked with young nursery stock which have all responded really well to the initial hard cutback/chops like rice seen. The single approach graft I was successful with was to add a back branch to one of my trees, which is growing beautifully now. I have seen thread grafting being successful too with Umes online so it can be done. Ume grow nice long canes/shoots so you should be able to grow some useable whips for grafting within a season.
If your trees have already been in pots for a while I’d be hesitant with very drastic cuts to try induce back budding, although I’m sure if they’re still fairly young and vigorous they should still respond as well as my nursery stock has 👍🏻
 
Cut down the big Ume I’ve got in the ground yesterday in anticipation of digging it up tomorrow. It’s pretty girthy and has decent movement after 2 years in the ground. There are 2 new buds popping from the trunk so I think it’s going to explode with new buds after the hard cut-back.

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September 2023, just after it went in the ground

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@Adamski77 I’ve only worked with young nursery stock which have all responded really well to the initial hard cutback/chops like rice seen. The single approach graft I was successful with was to add a back branch to one of my trees, which is growing beautifully now. I have seen thread grafting being successful too with Umes online so it can be done. Ume grow nice long canes/shoots so you should be able to grow some useable whips for grafting within a season.
If your trees have already been in pots for a while I’d be hesitant with very drastic cuts to try induce back budding, although I’m sure if they’re still fairly young and vigorous they should still respond as well as my nursery stock has 👍🏻
thank you @SeanS ... whips is something I really can't complain about... very long ;). My trees are probably similar age to the one you have in the ground though bark looks more mature so maybe slightly older. Appreciate your advise... I'll try some thread grafts in spring and let's see what happens.

... great thread btw. ...
 
These 2 umes took me almost all day to dig up and pot up 😮‍💨 Both had really good roots, a big spreading base met me under the soil and by sawing straight across the bottom of the root ball I needed up with nice flat bases that will fit into bonsai pots perfectly in the future.

First up the pink flowering Ume that I posted earlier this week asking for opinions on which trunkline to keep. I’ll post a potted photo tomorrow.

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