Shishigashira worth purchasing?

[Stickroot]

Thanks for the replies. I looked at that site, and this one is definitely a Shishigashira. The Ojishi is very similar but the leaves aren't as curled. So, it seems this one would be a Meishi. (I'm assuming Ojishi and Omeishi are the same thing).

There are several straight branches coming out of the top. The higher you go, the more interesting it becomes. One area is very interesting for an air layer. If it took, it would be a twin trunk with some interest not far above it.

Should I be concerned about the amount of scarring that would be left after removing the large branches off of the main lower trunk? How I'm looking at it, it would seem like several trunk chops compared to the typical 1.

They are two different trees but very similar, the ojishi

I agree, the tree has potential. It's especially nice that you cannot see the graft. Awkward grafting makes a lot of this cultivar unsuitable for bonsai. You have to be patient with these trees; they grow slowly. Chop back, except for what you want to try and air layer, then see what grows. Next spring put it in a big grow flat. The tree, along with your styling techniques, will show what it wants to become. To achieve ramification, allow the spring shoots to grow out, then remove the leaves that are not growing in the direction where you would like to have secondary branches. Usually those growing up or down. This will encourage the growth of the secondary branches. But, leave a downward growing shoot that is placed at the end of a branch, because when it extends, it will probably do so in a way that will add movement to the branch. I think the asking price is in line with what is usually charged for this cultivar.

I don't think it's a graft at all

 

[Jphipps]

It was labeled as being a grafted tree, but I could not tell whatsoever where the graft was made. That, combined with the very fat/slightly curved lower trunk drew me to it.

 

[BillyBonesBonsai]

That seems pricey to me.

 

[Alain]

I don't know if you bought it already but yesterday I dropped by a nursery here in IL and saw at least 5 or 6 of them acer...

They were all the same price as yours (i.e. $299 something), same size and same species.
knowing that you live in FL while I live in IL it seems to me that some producer had supply the nurseries nationwide with these trees this year.

Some of the ones I saw had much better characteristics (in term of overall shape, branches placements and so on) that the one on your picture, unfortunately I did have the possibility to take some pictures.

Anyway, all that to say that if you are on the hedge about buying this tree may be you should have a look at other nurseries in your area, they might have same but better trees for the same $

 

[barrosinc]

I would totally buy that... (if it isn't grafted) and keep the blue line as the tree, or yellow line.
Airlayer 4 large branches marked in red, get your money back. (don't airlayer everything or the base is gonna run out of energy.

 

[Jphipps]

Alain, I've checked out most nurseries in my area and this is the only one I've come across.

Again, the part that really really intrigued me is that it was labeled as being grafted but there was zero evidence all the way around the trunk of a graft. All others I've seen have noticeable and most often ugly graft scars. I like the idea that it may be on regular green maple roots (for toughness,etc.) I'm still concerned about the eventual removal of many of the large branches that come out from the main trunk. Maybe that is my inexperience, but it seems like these will be very noticeable scars for the future. This doesn't seem to be much of a concern for those responding. Am I concerned for nothing?

Barrosinc, I really like the graphic you put up. Nice to get different design perspectives.

 

[sorce]

I'm still concerned about the eventual removal of many of the large branches that come out from the main trunk

I'm still convinced these are part of your design, they are in good proportion, nice sizes, good direction....

I'd cut em all 6 inches long, then take the second biggest, to five, next to 4ish, and so on....

Am I the only one who sees this as viable?

Sorce

 

[LanceMac10]

Japanese Maples grow best when they have an extended period of dormancy over the winter. Whereabouts in Florida are you located? Do you have any experience with these more advanced techniques people are mentioning?

 

[LanceMac10]

And Alain is right, all the branches are straight, no taper and no movement. Actually a trait of this variety. Have you seen Bill Valavanis' shishi? Nice tree, but weird, lumpy branches. I'd keep looking......get some figs, your in Florida!!

 

[LanceMac10]

And JohnG too...(AAC!!) mentioned it, people have trouble with these things the further south you get. Check out johng's stuff on you-tube about bald cypress. How about one of those? They grow like weeds down there!!! The reason why you don't see a lot of these in nurseries down there, I suspect, is they probably don't grow well.

 

[Jphipps]

I'm in the Pensacola area. There are many varieties of Japanese maples growing and for sale down here. This is the first Shishigashira I've seen though.

Sorce, I thought the branches would be too thick to achieve the proper ramification, but again, I'm still somewhat new to the hobby so that's why I'm looking for advice.

 

[sorce]

I'm in the Pensacola area. There are many varieties of Japanese maples growing and for sale down here. This is the first Shishigashira I've seen though.

Sorce, I thought the branches would be too thick to achieve the proper ramification, but again, I'm still somewhat new to the hobby so that's why I'm looking for advice.

If be looking I get them divided And smaller by 1-3 inches off the main trunk.
And build branches off those, finer still.

But I don't know them great!

I know there are Maplle folks out there?

Sorce

 

[quietobserver]

I'd at least try to work him down on price, but that lower trunk is #groovy!

 

[drew33998]

I have one over here in jax. Seems to do the best as far as sunburn leaves out of my palmatums. Of course it is under an oak from may_oct.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Get it first. Ask questions later
Just kidding. I like it. I'd buy it.

 

[BillyBonesBonsai]

I keep finding really nice maples but they have all been grafted on. I'm thinking of getting some and just putting it in the garden to grow and use it for air layering

 

[drew33998]

99 percent will be grafted, especially if you're buying a Monrovia tree. My Shishigashira is grafted. Super ugly graft but I like it enough to just keep it as a potted specimen and take air layers of course.

 

[M. Frary]

Saw one around the same size a few weeks ago for $400.00
The graft was pretty well blended in but you could still see it.
From the amount of trees you could layer off of it it would well pay for itself.

 

[0soyoung]

Garden center a. palmatums will inevitably be grafted, barring the generic 'green' and 'red' japanese maples that are used mostly as root stock (but will make good bonsai). My experience with shishigasira is that it is slow to root, but okay on its own roots, so landscape planting and air layering isn't a bad strategy IMHO.

 

[Jphipps]

Osoyoung, have you had experience with air layering Shishigashira? If so, how long is long for them to root?