SS or Black steel tools?

JudyB

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
14,288
Reaction score
25,331
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
6a
I know what brand and type of tool I'm getting, just can't decide between the two different metals. I'm buying a new pair of scissors, I have been using Roshi for a couple years, black steel, but the edges are hard to maintain. They are getting notched on the sharp edge. I need a pair that I can use to cut small twigs without that happening. So I'm considering going with a Stainless Steel pair. Is this an advantage to SS, or am I barking up the wrong tree? I'm going with Kaneshin, as I have other tools of theirs that I like.
 
The main advantage to SS for me is the superior corrosion resistance.

I still clean and oil my SS tools, but if they sit over the winter, I don't worry about rust starting on them. I have had the handles of one or two of my carbon steel (black) start to get rust on them.
 
Stainless steel is harder than carbon steel. "Carbon steel" isn't really as hard as you would want for a scissor in my opinion.
 
I think either way is not bad. Some like SS for repotting tools because they seem to get wet more often and resist rust better than BS. I really like Kaneshin and Masakuni, I think you'll be happy with them. With any tools I think it's all about keeping them maintained- Regular sharpening, oiling and wiping down after use.
 
I've been happy with both but prefer the carbon steel for heavy cutting tools because they do seem to hold an edge better then stainless. With that said, scissors or shears really aren't heavy cutting tools. I've been using some ARS scissors I bought on ebay last year and they are great to work with and are inexpensive... https://www.amazon.com/ARS-SS-320BM...TF8&qid=1499970458&sr=8-8&keywords=ars+shears
 
That seems counterintuitive to me that the Carbon would keep an edge better than SS @Dav4? That would be my main goal actually for the edge to stay sharper longer. I'm not all that fabulous at tool maintenance, I mean I oil and wipe em down, but sharpening isn't my strong suit... But I do not use the wrong tool for the job, I use my branch cutters for anything more than twigs, so am not happy with the current pair.

I've found a couple good deals on the SS version, @rockm, only a few bucs difference, so it's really about performance at this point between the two types.
 
SS takes and keeps an edge for shit. There is a reason sushi chefs prefer only carbon steel for cutting. I have a drawer full of Henkle and woustoff knives at home all as probably worth a grand or more and can't stand any of them. I have an old Cutco knife I bought 39 years ago that will take an edge like a straight razor. Just a cheap iron knife but so good.

They will make you look like a pro though if your into that sort of thing though. I don't judge people by the tools they keep, only what they do with them.

That goes for my day job too. Carpenter.
 
Smoke said:
SS takes and keeps an edge for shit. There is a reason sushi chefs prefer only carbon steel for cutting. I have a drawer full of Henkle and woustoff knives at home all as probably worth a grand or more and can't stand any of them. I have an old Cutco knife I bought 39 years ago that will take an edge like a straight razor. Just a cheap iron knife but so good.

They will make you look like a pro though if your into that sort of thing though. I don't judge people by the tools they keep, only what they do with them.

That goes for my day job too. Carpenter.
Click to expand...
Just what I'm looking for, thanks for that.
If I want to look good, I'll prune in my bikini, and if you're lookin at the scissors, then that's on you...:D

Thanks all you guys for the answers!
 
FYI, masakuni's 8000 series tools have a stainless coating for corrosion resistance, but the cutting surfaces are still the same high quality steel of the black versions. (They do also manufacture some full-stainless-steel tools).
We just got a big order in from Japan ;)
 
FWIW I have been using SS almost exclusively for several years now from American Bonsai Tool & Supply Co. I find them to be quite excellent and reasonably priced.

But I also use a couple of CS tools that I love and they just keep cutting. One is by Joshua Roth and the other made by Yoshiaki.
 
zelk said:
Stainless steel is harder than carbon steel. "Carbon steel" isn't really as hard as you would want for a scissor in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Really a lot come into play for performance of a steel and big determining factor is heat treatment. Much more than just the composition of the steel. A good reputable producer or seller should have a good heat treat sourced to get the most out of the steel they use.

It's been said already but carbon steel will hold and edge better than ss. This is not universally true but for an SS and CS at the same price point the carbon steel will perform better. The reason is because of the chromium content in SS. While it gives the steel corrosion resistance it also makes the steel more wear resistant. This makes the steel harder to machine or work thus increasing production cost. So in order to offer an SS tool at a similar price point to that of a CS tool they will use a cheaper grade of SS. What American Bonsai and many others use is 440c steel. A cheap stainless but works well enough.

There are very high performing stainless steels out there but the high wear resistance make them impractical and too costly to use in something like bonsai tools. Another thing to consider is tool maintenance. Many high performing stainless steels are alloyed with chromium and vanadium which create hard carbides in addition to being heat treated to a high rockwell hardness (HRC). Steels like that require diamond and ceramic abrasives to cut and sharpen the steel. Depending on application you need to find a balance between performance and ease of maintenance. I own a set of expensive waterstones from my knife enthusiast days as well as diamond plates so this does not bother me. But average person will not own expensive sharpening equipment so it'd be difficult to sell expensive SS tools with high performance.

Many carbon steels on the other hand have a fine grain that produces a keener edge and is easier to sharpen. For most practical purposes no one really needs the performance of high end SS steels.

If you do not live in an overly humid area and you're responsible enough to occasionally clean/maintain your tools buy carbon steel. They will perform much better.

The more premium Japanese bonsai tool makers will use "blue" or "white" steel. The better grades have a higher carbon content which improve wear resistance and edge holding.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

boss99er
First Conifer, a Black Hills Spruce...hoping to imitate full sized tree
Replies
3
Views
167
boss99er
boss99er
Joe Dupre'
strange question about black pine needles
Replies
2
Views
183
Joe Dupre'
Joe Dupre'
Wulfskaar
Wulfskaar's Japanese Black Pine #1
Replies
6
Views
295
Shibui
S
ShimpakuBonsai
New Bonsai Hybrid - Japanese black pine with flowers
Replies
2
Views
201
Glaucus
G
lieuz
Literati Japanese Black Pine - Progression
Replies
2
Views
460
Gabler
Gabler
Back
Top Bottom