Stuck in minnesota new to bonsai am i stuck with expensive soil

[SHO_Gunner85]

Make sure your diatomaceous earth is not the fine powder version used for pest control. There is a diatomite rock that is great (don’t remember the brand). It’s 1/8-1/4” in size.

I am going to try the Napa 8822 that I have seen a lot of mentions to here.

 

[Underdog]

Been using (and reusing) 8822 for 5 years. Key is to find, make or buy something to sift out the fines. I like it and have other stuff available to use. I add lava to dry it out accordingly for the tree going in it. Sifted bark added for azalea and other acid lovers.

 

[Eckhoffw]

The sieve set from bonsai outlet has been key for me. sifting those nasty fines out of Napa or whatever you use is important to get the particle size of all your soil ingredients the same.
22$. Drop in the bucket!

 

[Underdog]

I use these. 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 inch. Fit on a five gal bucket. I have a 1/16 in stainless colander for spaghetti I sometimes use for seedling mixes. Makes a HUGE difference. I tried at first not sifting. Don't.

Robot or human?

 

[Dzhokar]

Use these myself.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008B0TJAI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

8822 stays too wet for my liking; it gets soggy and breaks down to make DE muck.

Sifting to achieve particle size for turface/8822 is a waste of time. All of the particles are close enough in size, rinsing works if you must. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze for me. But hey, give it a try. You will end up with 2 bins of sifted substrate that look nearly identical: extra small vs extra extra small... and you’re suppose to throw one of them away? No thanks.

Either way, wear a mask. Both are dusty.

Good luck.

 

[Paradox]

ok sounds good I have a mulch company that has unsifted pine bark mulch I found 50 pound bags of turface for 20 and have a napa about 2 miles away than I found some lava rock that I will check out. I am not worried about spending alittle more to figure out a good soil mix right now cause it will save money in the long run. So That i can put more money towards trees instead of soil haha.

You can also save money by having fewer, healthier, better quality trees in better soil.

I tried the cheap soil option when I started. It was a lot of work, made the trees very heavy to move around, held too much water and didnt work.
Good luck

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I have played with a lot of soil compositions since I started this. NAPA 8822 and grit was my first mix, and it worked fine but you will likely put up with other people telling you its terrible. Many people in my club use a product called Mule Mix thats found at the co-op - its basically turface - their trees look great. I have used Bonsai Jack soil and it has also worked fine, I have had trees in it for almost 3 years and they're very healthy. I have also grown out trees in Brent's mix (from Evergreengardenworks.com) of large fir bark, large perlite, and peat moss - it worked out great. I also have two mixes I made of either large DE or Expanded clay, pumice, and lava and trees seem happy in it.

Basically, it seems like as long as you observe good watering and fertilizing practices for your trees, they seem to be happy in a variety of substrates.

More importantly for me is the factor of time and effort versus money. $50 for a bag of soil seems a high price until you look at how much time you spend sifting and mixing $30 worth of components. What is your time worth? I decided I like the process of mixing up soil so the time sink is worth it to me, I throw on some music or a good podcast and get to work. However, if you're getting $20-$30 an hour at your day job, why spend the time mixing and sifting when it comes out to just saving yourself $15 from buying a good soil premade?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I strongly second the comments about the importance of sifting your mix. A good sieve set is important and will last many years. Even commercial pre-mixed media can be improved by sifting after you get it. @Eckhoffw & @Underdog were on point.

Pumice is the single best component of a bonsai potting mix. Even better than using Akadama. Do contact the bonsai society in Minneapolis and find out where their members get pumice. Well worth tracking down. Pumice 100% will work, but it is better as a base for a blend. Any of the other components mentioned above are great, or perform better when blended with at least 25% to 50% pumice..

In Minnesota, there is a nice, useful product, crushed quartzite, sold under the label Cherrystone poultry grit. It comes in several grades, I like the layer grade and the turkey grade, the grower grade is a little finer, will work with finer components like DE Napa 8822. It is just crushed quartzite, a little heavy and does not hold water. Great for drying out a mix that holds too much water. Has a nice purple & gray & brown color to it, makes a nice top dressing for pots before sending them to a show. It is quarried in New Ulm, Minnesota.

 

[Mash]

Find a group buy a bulk order from jonas is also good option. https://store.bonsaitonight.com/pages/bag-bonsai-soil

 

[davetree]

I get my soil components from the Minnesota bonsai society. You can get lava, pumice, and akadama for almost the same price you pay for turface.

 

[CWTurner]

In Minnesota, there is a nice, useful product, crushed quartzite, sold under the label Cherrystone poultry grit. It comes in several grades,

I was curious about this product and Googled it. Amazon sells it for $35.43 for 50 lbs, free delivery too. Cherrystone @Amazon
@Leo in N E Illinois keeps amazing us with his broad knowledge.
CW

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I was curious about this product and Googled it. Amazon sells it for $35.43 for 50 lbs, free delivery too. Cherrystone @Amazon
@Leo in N E Illinois keeps amazing us with his broad knowledge.
CW

When I pick it up at Farm & Fleet in Wisconsin, I pay about $12 per 50 pound bag. The "free shipping" on Amazon is built into the price. It is expensive moving "rocks" and "dirt". Shipping is often much more than the cost of the actual product.

Its been a while since I bought any, I still have 3 bags unopened. It could be up to $20 per bag at Farm and Fleet.

 

[atlarsenal]

Some people like diatomaceous earth. I don’t. Regardless, I would choose between turface and 8822. I believe they are redundant so you shouldn’t need both. If you’re on a budget, as your thread title implies, just choose the cheaper one.

Napa 8822 is diatomaceous earth.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

Napa 8822 is diatomaceous earth.

Yes it is.

I’ll clarify, he was planning to buy turface and 8822. I was:

1. Noting that I don’t like DE/8822
2. Recommending (regardless of my preference) he pick one or the other, speculating they’re close enough in function he wouldn’t need both.

 

[Boscology]

Drystall is pumice that can be found at feed stores.

You can find this at your local central MN Fleet Farm It's sold to be put in the bottom of horse stalls

I am not a fan of using sharp granite (poultry grit) because it makes the pots too heavy I prefer pumice

If you're in the Minneapolis/St Paul area you should look into the Minnesota Bonsai Society. https://minnesotabonsaisociety.org/events-2/general-meeting/
They'll be able to give you guidance on local sourcing of soil components. I don't know if there are clubs in other parts of the state

Yea MBS makes a large order of Akadama, Pumice, Lava rock etc if you really desire specific materials

 

[roberthu]

You can buy akadama in pellet and it should be less than $30 per bag shipped.

 

[Mikecheck123]

The raw materials are cheap in bulk, but don't forget to factor in other costs, such as time in aquiring, hauling, washing, sifting, and mixing, as well as the wear and tear on your back from shoveling loads of rock.

These costs are why I now choose to just click the ole mouse button these days.

 

[davetree]

Prices for soil components thru the MN bonsai society -
Lava - $15/40 lbs
Pumice - $25/40 lbs
Akadama - $27/ 17 liter bag

As you can see, at these prices you are around the same cost as turface.

 

[bonsaiDerek]

I get my soil components from the Minnesota bonsai society. You can get lava, pumice, and akadama for almost the same price you pay for turface.

do they still sell soil components?