The secret to growing bonsai. A thread inspired by Bolero.

Bolero

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View attachment 141448 This Mugo of Vances is a tree that epitomizes bonsai to me.
This yatsabusa elm is probably my best at the moment.View attachment 141449 What am I doing about the difference?
Scouring the nurseries for Mugo and the land for Scots pine to collect.

First I want to thank BVF for using me as an Inspiration for this Thread, Thank you Brian...
Secondly I want to thank Mike for using VW's Mugo, the same one I would use as my Favorite because I know what Vance has done over the years to arrive at this Show Quality Mugo...
And in closing I will say I love all them Bonsai, Young-Old, Sick-Healthy, Show-Non show, Small-Large, Artsy-Non Artsy, and I appreciate all Bonsai Gardeners for their sensitivity, skill & dedication to the World of Bonsai...
 

Waltron

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here are a few photos I have saved that I go back to.

this book right here is actually one of my favorites, its full of awesome deciduous photos that mirror my interests.
https://www.amazon.com/Bonsai-Nativ...1492523867&sr=8-8&keywords=native+bonsai+book

as far as my bench.. full of native prebonsai collected by me. I love them, but not much for an outsider to look at.. im still a couple years out from having a display area of actual bonsai. My friends who come over that are not familiar with bonsai are very impressed(for the most part) lol. its funny when I point out the flaws or the building process to them and watch them try to grasp it.

MaYNJeD.png
GUsBSm3.png
http://i.imgur.com/942qWUK.png
http://i.imgur.com/t0c0pDS.png
http://i.imgur.com/ElErgL5.png
 

Ginseng Ficus

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All these trees are inspirational to me with a lot of work and time put into these great trees. Very nice!
 

Chuah

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My goals for each tree are unique. I don't know that there is a "finish" line for any tree. Even the trees you mention have their good days and bad days. They cannot be kept every day at the peak of show performance level. They're like athletes... you have to train them for a specific event, develop them, and then you need to let them rest :) In some cases you might show a tree that is at the end of a stage of its development - it looks nice today but you know you will have to do major work shortly - because the branches are getting too thick for the design, or the apex is getting too heavy, or whatever.

I have never purchased a "finished" bonsai because I think it is this journey with the tree that I enjoy. Starting with very raw material and getting it closer and closer to a vision of perfection that can never be achieved. But there are moments - like that one day in Spring when that one particular flowering tree has absolutely perfect blooms - that you can say "it may not be perfect but right now it is pretty close". :)
Very well said, fully agreed.
 

leatherback

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Poef. THat is a toughy. There are so many great trees I have seen.

I like the elm in Bonsai Museum Dusseldorf, by Werner Busch a lot (picture taken december 2016):
doodhout_dusseldorf_20161204_4.jpg

My own best tree probably is the lonicera bottom left. I am afraid I do not have very good trees..:
lonicera-1.jpg
 

M. Frary

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Poef. THat is a toughy. There are so many great trees I have seen.

I like the elm in Bonsai Museum Dusseldorf, by Werner Busch a lot (picture taken december 2016):
View attachment 141605

My own best tree probably is the lonicera bottom left. I am afraid I do not have very good trees..:
View attachment 141606
Dont sell yourself short.
You have some good looking trees there.
 

thumblessprimate1

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Not my best bonsai on the right, but it's got my attention the most lately.
First this year, I did some root work at repotting. Removed a large root that was higher up. Reposition the lean of the tree because of what roots I have and what I removed. Did some work on the chop site, grinding it down leaving a slightly convex surface. Started a thread graft.

To get it to become a fine tree like the one on the left, I'm going to need to keep developing the nebari. I forgot to mention that I have it growing on a board this year too. I'd like to get some cuttings going so that I could thread graft some more roots in a year or two. Hackberry doesn't get nice root spread all around like Elm after collection. I have lots of gaps. After that, the branches need more development. May need more thread grafts to keep it from being so 2D. Want to keep closing up the chop wound. Let's see. Did I miss anything besides loads of time and refinement?

comparison.png
 

my nellie

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One member said above that our notion of bonsai masterpiece depends also on our experience.
... ...For me it raises the question, does our idea of world class bonsai differ based on our own personal experience?... ...
I believe there is truth in this statement.

I like to "do" my bonsai trees and I have stopped purchasing "finished" trees because it is the creation following a vision which enchants me.
So I am trying to do my best with whatever raw material I can afford and find -bare in mind there are no bonsai nurseries in my country- patiently enjoying every stage in my trees journey!
Waiting to improve my efficiency every day. And I love it this way!

All the above been said, I would add that having to select only one photo is a hard task :)
But I admire Mediterranean olives and it is the photo of an olive that comes to mind first.
Too many well known and talented artists in this field, Erasmo Garcia, Carlos Huerta, Antoni Payeras, David Benavente etc etc
Choosing only one tree means injustice to others equally beautiful.

So be it... Ginkgo Bonsai Award 2007 - “Sa Pesa” of Carlos Huerta (two different sides)
Olea+001-08.jpg
Olea+001-10.jpg


I would never imagine to put a photo of any of my humble trees standing beside the above olive, but I will simply show you my best potensai :) A collected small hawthorn
327_zpss911f9gh.jpg
 

Paradox

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Ok here are my entries.

I am posting 2 pics of 2 of what I think are trees that represent the pinnacle of bonsai

Bill Valvanis RAF Scots pine

BillValvanis_RAF_Scots.jpg

Walter Pall Maple
walter-pall-maple-4.jpg


What I think are my 2 best trees right now and one I think may someday be one of my best:

Ilex Crenata
Sept2016.jpg

Japanese Black Pine

Jan2016_rewire (2)_small.jpg

Scots pine I have been developing.
This picture is from last year. I dont have an updated pic with it all wired and additional pruning done. It does look a bit different right now.
August2016_Small.jpg

As I said in my previous post. I dont have the money to buy stock that can be developed into trees like I first posted within a reasonable time. And at my age, I dont have 50 years to develop it either.

So I do the best with what I can do.
The Ilex is show ready. The black pine needs a few more years. The scots probably another 8-10 years
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Post a photo of the one bonsai that epitomizes bonsai to you, and a photo of the absolute best bonsai on your bench.

So, as I scrolled through the nearly 10,000 photos on my iPad, this is the one tree that I have saved off more than any other. As tough as it is to pick a favorite, this shimpaku has been, and currently is the epitome of bonsai to me. It has incredible movement, ancient deadwood, just enough imbalance, a quiet feeling of age, but a touch of refinement. This is part of the bonsai collection adjacent to the Shinpukuji Temple in Japan.
IMG_0945.JPG 95626D62-4730-419F-9F54-AC54CB28CFAD.JPG IMG_6484.JPG
My best bonsai is also a shimpaku from Japan. I searched for a long time, and saved for even longer until I found this one for sale by @Don Blackmond, and worked closely with Bjorn to prepare it for show over 2 years. It will never have the same movement and feel as the one above, but it does display nice deadwood, a quiet feeling of age, and refinement.
FullSizeRender.jpg
The risk of a big purchase reduces with years of experience, success with the species, and constant study. I hope to grow more over the next 22 years practicing bonsai than I have in the first 22. It's much more than keeping roots alive.
 

MichaelS

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But I admire Mediterranean olives and it is the photo of an olive that comes to mind first.
Too many well known and talented artists in this field, Erasmo Garcia, Carlos Huerta, Antoni Payeras, David Benavente etc etc
Choosing only one tree means injustice to others equally beautiful.

So be it... Ginkgo Bonsai Award 2007 - “Sa Pesa” of Carlos Huerta (two different sides)
Olea+001-08.jpg
Olea+001-10.jpg

My Nellie.
Firstly, yes these are (reasonably) attractive trees.
Secondly a little reality is in order. The truth is - believe it or not - is that the level of ''talent'' required to produce the above images is very slight. Certainly there is NO art involved in this process whatsoever.
Let me explain why.
These olives are collected. The trunk shape has zero to do with any person so that part - which is 90% of the image's visual imact - must be put out of mind completely. There is only a very limited number of suitable positions where this or any other collected trunk can be displayed to show it's greatest or most dramatic angle and features. So the positioning in the pot is more or less pre-determined by it's very shape. Now the green part. (the remaining 10% of the visual impact). If you observe enough bonsai, you will notice that the branch positioning and overall construction of the top in these trees is not only standard but below standard. The main braches which could be wired down ala ''Japanese Clipped Garden Style'', have been and from there all that has been performed is to come along from time to time and pinch out the new shoots.
Now, do you still think it requires a ''talented artist'' to achieve this? I'm not trying to single out any particular person. I don't need to because so many of the (probably thousands) of so called artists do exactly the same. Art has not even come close to here. These are a standard set of skills learned by most practitioners over time. How do I attach this wire? How far down should this branch go? Is there a back branch and a front branch for some depth? And we are completed. It's all monkey see monkey do stuff.
No talent and no art required. Just a bit of persistence until you learn the skills. So given the above facts, it's worth putting these trees into some perspective. There are way too many people getting around with the pretence of being artists with even more followers blowing their smoke. The art starts when you design a tree from the start with due consideration to each element and how that fits into a pre-conceived plan or vision. This is hardly ever done. Usually it's the tree which dictates and any future potential is done away with in the name of expediency.
The same can be said about most (not all) of peoples ''pinnacles'' of bonsai.
@Paradox, I would be interested to read your explanation as to why you consider those two trees so highly?
 
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MichaelS

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Ok here are my entries.

I am posting 2 pics of 2 of what I think are trees that represent the pinnacle of bonsai

Bill Valvanis RAF Scots pine

View attachment 141614

Walter Pall Maple
View attachment 141615


What I think are my 2 best trees right now and one I think may someday be one of my best:

Ilex Crenata
View attachment 141616

Japanese Black Pine

View attachment 141617

Scots pine I have been developing.
This picture is from last year. I dont have an updated pic with it all wired and additional pruning done. It does look a bit different right now.
View attachment 141618

As I said in my previous post. I dont have the money to buy stock that can be developed into trees like I first posted within a reasonable time. And at my age, I dont have 50 years to develop it either.

So I do the best with what I can do.
The Ilex is show ready. The black pine needs a few more years. The scots probably another 8-10 years
Your Black pine is a better tree than the Valavanis scots. No question. Tell me you see that! I'm not belittling anyone just stating a fact. Don't look at age look at qualities.
 
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Potawatomi13

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I don't have a favorite tree but when I come across a pic of one I really like I will save it so I thought I would just post one of those. I have no idea whos tree it is and it is not even in a pot but it is pretty awesome.
View attachment 141541

Here is my best tree.
View attachment 141545

I have been mostly a loner internet bonsai guy but lately I have been looking to learn more from well know teachers.

Believe upper Juniper in box may be Michael Hagedorns. Just there a couple weeks ago and was so distracted by great trees do not remember seeing it then:oops::rolleyes: but seems it was in his blog.
 

my nellie

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@MichaelS thank you for taking the time to respond to the specific post of mine :)
I always read your elaborate posts with interest every time I am aware of them.
I do understand perfectly your reasoning, well said.

However, there arises once again the endless debate of how each person conceives bonsai and the aesthetics of bonsai. This is why I started my post referring to the quote of @herzausstahl as regards to personal experience.

It seems to me that most enthusiasts here you have in mind the strict Japanese modus and this is the pinnacle of bonsai for you. This is at least what I get. Maybe I'm wrong....

On the other hand if bonsai is art, we all are aware of the dictum “an object of art speaks to the viewer” and as Sandy, has mentioned above the famous maple of @Walter Pall I would bring up the photo of his Crataegus, instead.


It is this second tree which speaks volumes to me. Not the maple.
Bonsai is contemplation, used to say very often @Anthony

Endless debate as I said….

With all due respect, if interested in following the photo imaging of the story/journey of this collected tree, you will realize that it is not so simple a task, as you has presented before.
http://www.walter-pall.de/ Walter Pall Bonsai Gallery - "European Hawthorn nr. 2"
 

Anthony

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Alexandria,

I should let you know, that with regards to Mr. Pall, on our side, caution is used as
many of his trees seem to be ------ hit and miss.

As he has never been able to explain his technique. He may have a good eye for finding
things. There is a guy down here with a good eye. Has a knack for seeing at the right
time, but that is his entire ability.

What happens when the tree reaches it's pinnacle and has to be re-done ?
Good Day
Anthony
 

my nellie

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It might be more appropriate if we did not refer to the name of grower/artist at all. It is the tree which is the subject of this thread, after all.
But then how is one justified posting an image without the name of the proprietor, I wonder.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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@MichaelS
You have missed the purpose of this thread if you think it's now incumbent of you to join in to tell everyone, once again, how wrong they are for their choices. In fact, you are actually illustrating my point for starting the thread:

The goal (or secret) is going to be different for everyone. Not everyone wants to crawl Home Depot for their next masterpiece, and not everyone wants to drop thousands for a trophy tree. It doesn't make anyone wrong, but the secret to growing bonsai is more than healthy roots; it also includes finding people who have trees you admire, and doing what they do. Personally, a lot of the trees posted here don't appeal to me. That's fine; it just means I don't take their advice because I don't want my tree to end up like theirs, and they probably won't end up with trees like mine.

BTW, your critique of the olive is interesting. You say the artist had nothing to do with the trunk, but there is no reason to discredit the work done to get it show-ready; from finding it, selecting a trunk angle and position that is pleasing, and then to frame the trunk with foliage. By contrast, there are unlimited ways to make this particular tree unappealing.

How about participating in the spirit of the thread? Post up what is the epitome of bonsai to you, along with your best tree...and what you are doing to improve.
 

chicago1980

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Alexandria,

I should let you know, that with regards to Mr. Pall, on our side, caution is used as
many of his trees seem to be ------ hit and miss.

As he has never been able to explain his technique. He may have a good eye for finding
things. There is a guy down here with a good eye. Has a knack for seeing at the right
time, but that is his entire ability.

What happens when the tree reaches it's pinnacle and has to be re-done ?
Good Day
Anthony

That's bullshit. Walter Pall explains his technique and approach to large groups of students here in Chicago. Some I agree with, some techniques I don't.

Also, it seems you are not aware of the development he has put into countless trees from stumps.

I'm not a Walter Pall student, but fuck man at least put an effort to researching his work and not attempt to minimize decades of work to a "good eye".

Ahh fuck it.

The tree reaches the Pinnacle of the design, grow out, start a new design, set a new Pinnacle, grow older as a tree does.
 
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