The "So?" response to bonsai rules.

[A. Gorilla]

Structure makes things quickly accessible to beginners.

At some point, people can shed the safety net of known repeatable mechanics and quickly improvise with respect to the point of the activity.

I watch car painters on youtube a lot. They zip through things without thinking. However, put sandpaper to your own car for the first time. Yeah....you'll want that safety net of rote structure for a while. And your first several panels will be horse shit.

But it's not "art" so it's ok to point out the errors. Errors are exactly what they are.

But no tree has design errors apparently? All wiring messes are just character and "rough styling" or...whatever.

 

[flor1]

I don't know if your comment refered to my comment, but my comment is not about your post but rather what your post has turned into. I defend you but don't have the patience for where this post is heading.

Unfortunately this thread is headed knowwhere.

 

[Gabler]

Trees in nature are appealing to humans only through chance and not intention. Bonsai are intentional creations. They adhere to humans' sense of beauty.

I would add that humans have been walking upright on the ground for only about two million years, based on the archaeological record. For sixty-some million years before that, our direct genetic ancestors were arboreal, based on the fossil record. Most recently, that was our common ancestor with the chimpanzee, but it goes back all the way to a rat-like ancestor to all primates. It’s no surprise that an appreciation for trees is hardwired into our brains. I suspect that our evolutionary lineage is the original source for “the rules.”

 

[rockm]

I would add that humans have been walking upright on the ground for only about two million years, based on the archaeological record. For sixty-some million years before that, our direct genetic ancestors were arboreal, based on the fossil record. Most recently, that was our common ancestor with the chimpanzee, but it goes back all the way to a rat-like ancestor to all primates. It’s no surprise that an appreciation for trees is hardwired into our brains. I suspect that our evolutionary lineage is the original source for “the rules.”

Don't really understand what you're talking about. I was talking about aesthetics, not atavistic instincts.

 

[ibakey]

My take on this is it’s pretty hard to reinvent the wheel. Originality is more often than not based on previous ideas of others. Human civilization did not reach such heights without the accumulation of knowledge and improving upon it. As with many art forms, when you look at Picasso’s cubism, he didn’t start from there but evolved his work from traditional, getting the basics or rules right of painting before veering away and building upon what he have mastered.
Similarly with bonsai, I believe that from a horticulture and an artistic standpoint, it both requires knowledge and experience. Try and imitate some well known bonsai trees and see if you can reach a similar result. What more, some trees were developed over generations. I would say venturing into the path of originality is always great but do you bring with you knowledge and proper intentions or blindly hacking away and hoping that something good comes out.

 

[Baku1875]

whatta thread!!!

Reminds me of Cartman's "whatever! I do what i want" tantrum on Maury lmfao....
*Yeah I do reverse taper and don't develop ramification or nebari, whatever, I do what I want!*

 

[Gabler]

Don't really understand what you're talking about. I was talking about aesthetics, not atavistic instincts.

I mean that I suspect the two are closely related.

 

[Carol 83]

If you want to follow the rules, follow them. If you don't want to, don't. Just don't start a thread about it.

 

[leus]

There is no need for me to answer to this thread and I don’t have absolutely nothing original or useful to say. But I think that’s the spirit of it so here I go.

If your tree looks like a beautiful bonsai then you followed the rules. This is the way.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Primus sucks

What's your band sound like?

This whole thread is ..

 

[badatusernames]

Could someone send me a copy of the rules?

They're actually on the last page of Finnegans Wake

No one has actually ever read them

 

[Cruiser]

Primus sucks

Thanks for the reminder! Good stuff.

 

[August]

What's your band sound like?

This whole thread is ..

View attachment 485724

Get a load of this guy; he doesnt even know that Primus sucks!

 

[August]

It has been really interesting lurking this thread the last few days. I suppose I owe an opinion now.

Has anyone thought about how the trees might feel? I believe all flora in general is owed a pat on the back simply for existing, evolving, and growing in such a chaotic universe. I would say the same for you nuts. Cheers!

 

[Shogun610]

Show me your trees that you’re breaking rules with.. and rules are guidelines to follow but to me they’re more like principles or horticulture / design techniques to help aid the tree in preparation of what I want to do to it.

 

[We're all Mad Here...🎩]

Last year was my first year killing a few junipers, but also just learning how to fertilize and keep non-cactus plants alive in pots. I bought an old spruce from nature's way but have still been hesitant to do anything with it. For me, bonsai is about learning patience, which was hard in the beginning. I'm in the military and I've adopted the mindset that if I can keep grooming the trees I have until I retire in 8 years, I'll have some fun projects down the line.

I agree with manybhere in that, yes, I hate following rules, but I think we all internalize the general concepts whether we like it or not. In fact, merely being on this forum, reading books, visiting bonsai exhibits, cements these rules somewhat visually in our minds.

The reason I've always been hesitant to hack trees up is because I'm a bit of a perfectionist, which can be debilitating at times. Not having the confidence to do it "right" often leaves my plants untouched, which I'm getting better at.

However, I lost interest in bonsai last fall due to this mindset and said, 'if I'm going to do this, let's see if I can keep these plants alive through winter.' Well, that happened, everything is thriving, and I have the itch and drive to just let my mind create what I think is esthetically pleasing.

I often wonder when it comes to plants, how to approach them and what would he impactful...how would Salvador Dalí approach this?

 

[Zac]

I'm new to bonsai only a couple of years under my belt but I feel the "rules" are more guidelines to follow and unless planning on winning shows or selling your trees there's no need to follow the rules to a T after all rules are meant to be broken or bent right? I'm sure alot of you would say my trees aren't official bonsai and I agree I'm still learning so they don't all abide by the rules yet. Like stated already after awhile your following the rules even though you think your not they just become second nature. I'm the type that I'm not going to abandon a tree just because it doesn't fit the true form of bonsai if I like it and it brings me peace and joy after all that's what bonsai is supposed to be about isn't it connecting with nature bringing Zen?

 

[penumbra]

Has anyone thought about how the trees might feel? I believe all flora in general is owed a pat on the back simply for existing, evolving, and growing in such a chaotic universe.

You know I'm there.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Primus sucks

Somebody gets it (For those unfamiliar, this is what the crowd of fans chant as Primus gets on stage).

 

[baron]

I think the 'rules' are made for people beginning with bonsai to serve more or less as guidelines.
For example photography students, one of the first things they learn is the golden ratio. Because its the basis and the easiest way to get some really good results.
The path I try to follow (learning from my teacher); we create natural grown trees and in order to do so we sometimes need to 'break the rules'. Nature doesn't follow rules.
But in order to break them, you still have to know them. Only then you can replicate nature and create perfect imperfection.