Thoughts on future refinement?

Chris Koehler

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What kind of pine is it?

I can't tell from your photo if the apex leans away from the viewer. It looks like it does. If this is the case, when you repot, reposition it so that the apex moves towards the viewer. Think "the tree is bowing" to the viewer. (Oh, wait! That's a Japanese custom!)
Do it anyway.

Your styling should showcase the trunk. Having foliage to the left is fine, and if you want foliage on the right (I would!), pull some foliage from the back around to the right. It's kinda like the foliage is the background, highlighting the trunk and deadwood.

It is a Ponderosa. You are right, there is quite a significant amount of foliage behind in the background that needs to be redirected back around. When I re-pot the tree I am going to attempt to redirect the angle of the trunk in a more upright position that will bring branches closer to the front of the tree, closer to the viewer.

What do you think about the current amount of foliage relative to the overall tree size? Reduce by 10 - 20%?
 

sorce

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You got time then brother......

Have you ever seen Ryan Neil in Canberra? YouTube it. Ah this may be it.
He writes down stuff on a dry erase about objective bonsai design. You'll find it. Crucial! !

That's pretty much where all those thoughts came from. Learning from Ryan.

Sorce
 

Adair M

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It is a Ponderosa. You are right, there is quite a significant amount of foliage behind in the background that needs to be redirected back around. When I re-pot the tree I am going to attempt to redirect the angle of the trunk in a more upright position that will bring branches closer to the front of the tree, closer to the viewer.

What do you think about the current amount of foliage relative to the overall tree size? Reduce by 10 - 20%?
Never, ever reduce the foliage on a ponderosa! It's so hard to get them to backbud, try to use every twig you have! They're really flexible, you can bend them easily. The trade off is it takes a long, long time for the bends to set. They'll always need wire.
 

Adair M

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There's a better one of Ryan styling a Pondy in Chicago. I think it's actually 3 segments.
 

Chris Koehler

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Never, ever reduce the foliage on a ponderosa! It's so hard to get them to backbud, try to use every twig you have! They're really flexible, you can bend them easily. The trade off is it takes a long, long time for the bends to set. They'll always need wire.

Duly noted, thanks. RE: bend yes, that's consistent with everything I read. I watched Andy Smith's ponderosa video, thought it was excellent.
 

sorce

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The bit on objective bonsai design is universal and a MUST!

So is the Craftsy wiring video!
Thanks again Adair!

Sorce
 

Chris Koehler

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You got time then brother......

Have you ever seen Ryan Neil in Canberra? YouTube it. Ah this may be it.
He writes down stuff on a dry erase about objective bonsai design. You'll find it. Crucial! !

That's pretty much where all those thoughts came from. Learning from Ryan.

Sorce

Thanks Sorce, yes I have!! :) I must have serious "bonsai' OCD...haha.. hate to admit it, but I think I've watched every Ryan Neil youtube video more than once!
This demo by Steve Jetzer is pretty good too:
 

Chris Koehler

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I meant the whole trunk!

Which puts it at an angle where a virtual is almost useless.



This is what I'm thinking, like we are almost looking at the bottom in pic One.

The perspective is way to leany(touched to save my bonsai words!) to tell.......

But the bark on the back is beautiful.
And if you pulled The whole trunk to front right (pic1) , so you can make out the Shari and it's not leaning too forward....

May look real pimp!

I way dig this. If you got more pics, or a mind to take em, I'd love to see em!

Sorce

Sorce, appreciate your willingness to advise--I will pm you some more pics. thanks!
 

Potawatomi13

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Yes; but still, I don't wish to be accused of opening Pandora's box. If you examine American Yamidori trees they still have many of the refinements and traits that make and refine classic bonsai forms. You still have approved and disapproved branch placement, specifically bar branches, branches at the inside of curves and all of the other basic things that tend to scream out at you for violating. The formation of foliage pads, the use of triangles etc, these are the basic elements of the internal combustion engine of the bonsai art that seldom change enough to cause the community to rethink their sensibilities.

Yes, the classic styles were originally Yamadori trees but; much of the way they were styled was from what could be called Surreal representation of a quasi spiritual ideal of how things should be, not always how things actually are. As I mentioned earlier Yamadori trees; seem to march to their own drummers and tend to make the rules rather than follow them.

This is a fact. If we assume that there is a book of rules that can and should be followed then we must assume they had to be defined somehow, somewhere, and sometime. How did this happen? I have said this many time before: Rules are those things that define what some master did sometime ago to achieve success.

What was done then seemed to define what others observed as being the things necessary to define a bonsai----a rule. So the ubiquitous bonsai growers seeking to emulate that success did the same thing ---- they followed a rule. In short: Art defines the rules and what they are if, enough people admire that art and seek to emulate it.

If additional art comes along and more people seek to emulate that as well then; that art defines a new set of rules that my replace the old rules or redefine them. Please understand this: Rules are for the breaking if you can get away with it by doing it so beautifully as to stimulate others to follow, and do the same--- now we have a new rule. If your art or your impression of the art is significant enough to be studied and coppied by others then you too can make the rules.
While somewhat confusing to me Agree I do with your explanation. Most excellent perception. And from this is and will be growing American Bonsai.
 

Potawatomi13

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Thanks Sorce, yes I have!! :) I must have serious "bonsai' OCD...haha.. hate to admit it, but I think I've watched every Ryan Neil youtube video more than once!
This demo by Steve Jetzer is pretty good too:
Certainly nothing to be embarrassed about is watching and attempting to "absorb" Ryans teaching. Met him and talked with several times I have and a most excellent Bonsai spirit and heart for the trees he has.;)
 

sorce

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Sorce, appreciate your willingness to advise--I will pm you some more pics. thanks

I don't advise, I brainstorm, let these old guys hear me giving advise.....

I'll never hear the end of it!

Sorce
 
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