Tilting pot to deal with constant rain.

[rockm]

"poo-poo"? That's a funny expression. I am just trying to think logically and I just can't think of a situation where tilting the pot is necessary if the tree is being taken care of. I am sure there are always tiny pools of water left at the bottom of the average pot until it is really dry and that they are probably not dangerous. If you syphon the water from one of those pools it would be next to nothing. Of course, if you tilt the pot at a 90 degree angle you will get the water from all of those pools at once and that could be what you said "might surprise me".

I recently saw a video where the guy says that a thin gravel bottom is useless. I don't think it is useless. If we are worried about small pools in the bottom of the pot (creating drenched soil) then what is wrong with a gravel bottom? And if you've got a gravel bottom and the soil is still drenched then the problem is more severe. I don't see how tilting the pot is going to help. Anyway, by tilting the pot less than 90 degrees there will be water collected in the corners anyway. So OK we can drill holes in all four corners too. But I think that is exaggerating.

Everything here is my opinion. I am not a professional bonsai gardener or a master. So if you think what I've written is silly please tell me. I am always willing to learn and improve my trees.

My trees are all taken care of and I tilt pots regularly when we get downpours in the summer. Water pooling in the corners of the pots isn't a big issue compared to waterlogged soil that can happen in prolonged very rainy conditions.

As explained before, this is physics, basically. The deeper the pot, the quicker it drains because--simplistically-- there is more pressure behind the water--think waterfall compared to a flat stream. Shallow pots and big pots benefit greatly because both kinds tend to accumulate and retain a lot of water over rainy periods. By tilting a pot you are basically increasing its vertical depth=faster, more complete draining...

As for drainage layers, nope, don't need them. They can do weird things to roots, either by inhibiting their growth--roots sometimes won't easily colonize dramatically different soil types. They also affect drainage. Since water doesn't move easily from a finer grained soil into a coarser grain, it forces a perched water table higher in the pot where roots are, potentially rotting them.

Also, and this can be a big also if you have BIG trees with big pots--gravel adds considerable weight. An inch of crushed gravel in a 24" by 20" pot can add several pounds to the total weight.

Drainage layers went out of use because of all this back in the 90's...

 

[M. Frary]

I tilt all of my colanders when it rains hard.

 

[jeanluc83]

I think it was someone here who suggested this experiment:

Take a wet sponge and put it on the counter flat and let it drain until nothing else comes out. Then pick up while keeping it flat. Dry off the counter where it was then set sponge down again but this time on its edge. More water will drain out. Why? The perched water table in the sponge is a function of height not volume. When you turned the sponge the height increased.

You could do the same experiment but instead of turning the sponge on its side just tilt it up some. This is the same idea as tilting a pot.

 

[coh]

The sponge analogy describes the physical process, but it's not the same as a pot...which is an enclosed space with drain holes. The location of the drain holes plays a big role. I have some pots that only have a single large hole in the center, or perhaps 2 large holes off-center (but not near the edges). Tilting removes some water, but if I then tilt the pot even further I can often drain a lot of extra water out over the pot lip.

As for a drainage layer...I've noticed that many of the "pros" still advocate the use of a very thin layer of large particles on the pot bottom. Ryan Neil does this, but he calls it an "aeration layer" instead of a "drainage layer". It's hard to argue with his results even though it seems to me that using any kind of layer of larger particles at the bottom, will raise the perched water level...thus defeating the idea of adding air at the bottom of the pot. Problem is, it's hard to see through most bonsai pots. Think I might try some experiments this winter with clear plastic containers (shallow, wide like bonsai containers).

 

[Random Usr]

Is this not a problem? I have only one pot with holes right at the edge. Nice big ones too. An old Sanshu Ichiyo. None of my others have holes anywhere near the sides. So in a storm of many days we have roots sitting in a pool of H20, eh? This can't be good. View attachment 166459 View attachment 166460

I don't think that you understood my reply in its entirety.

 

[River's Edge]

[QUOTE="just.wing.it, post: 505428, member: 19277"
It's the capillary action of water that holds it in the pot, instead of draining out the bottom holes...with inorganic substrate.
I don't see the need for a "drainage layer", although there may be something to say about a larger particle size having less surface area, and that fact alone may decrease the amount of water that can be held via capillary action....??
I dunno.[/QUOTE]
The larger particle size does have less surface area and also creates larger open spaces between the particles. Thus faster draining and better intake of air from the bottom. Hence, the importance of keeping the drain holes free of roots (repotting) and feet on the pots or elevating the Bonsai containers. Most effective if particle size is graduated in the pot, larger on the bottom and then gradually smaller. Too small a size after the larger granules just fills the open spaces that one wanted to create. H2O plus O2

 

[just.wing.it]

Too small a size after the larger granules just fills the open spaces that one wanted to create. H2O plus O2

Yes, indeed, and I've seen that happen.
But I see your point, thanks!

 

[Shima]

I tilt all of my colanders when it rains hard.

Bam! Right over their heads.

 

[River's Edge]

Oops, new here, will have to learn who to keep an eye out for. It is easier in familiar territory. Well done!

 

[M. Frary]

Bam! Right over their heads.

I know. Thank God you picked up on it.

 

[M. Frary]

Well done!

That's what she said!

 

[Rambles]

I thought pot tilting was only legal in Colorado and Oregon...