Tree seedling online- best location?

Well, I am glad you guys like him. Maybe I was looking at the wrong page/ wrong plants..., but $65 for the tree I saw pictured was WAY out of line with other retailers I know of and WAY over what I would pay for a tree like that. Sugar coat it however you like... I just called it what it looked like. I can get a mature white pine with a thick trunk and tons of foliage in a 5 gallon container at the most expensive nursery in my city for $80, and they just put them on a 50% off sale (not a bonsai nursery, they just have a decent selection of junipers and pines sometimes) Comparable sized/ aged trees listed all over the net are priced at about 1/5 the cost of the plants I saw there... Again, maybe the picture was misleading, maybe it was some special cultivar that is solid gold on the inside... But the trees i saw there were "pricey"- is that a better word?

If we are talking mature stock, not "seedlings"- which is what this thread is about- it looks like Evergreen has some great trees! I never dealt with him on any purchase personally so I have no frame of reference other than the pics on his website to say whether he runs a good business or whether he is really ripping people off. If you guys know him better, then I will take your word for it- so if Brent comes here I humbly apologize for speaking out of turn! I was just trying to help the OP find a place to get seedlings...


Have you ever bought a tree from Brent (evergreengardenworks?) I have to say there is a GIANT difference between a nursery grown tree and one he grows. The biggest difference is the roots. If you buy a nursery grown tree it may have a great trunk in a 5 gallon container, but more then likely the roots will consist of 3-5 long thick roots with the majority of the feeder roots at the bottom of the container if it has many at all. You can chop it back hard and hope it grows but that's always a chance. I been repotting bonsai for 10+ years I still put it at a 50% chance a nursery tree lives through a bonsai repot. You essentially have to remove all that old bad soil and get the rootball clean for drainage. You also need to decrease the height of the root mass and by doing this you'll most likely cut off 75% of the feeders. If your patient you can plant the whole root ball in pumice for a year or two to grow new feeders at the top of the root ball.

Brents seedlings, and his larger material is in a very loose reasonable particle size organic mix which falls apart when your repot his trees. You can retain the whole root ball most of the time and still fit the tree in an appropriate bonsai pot. His root balls are mostly feeder roots and most of the time you'll either have no tap root or only one short one to deal with. He treats his roots as you'd treat the roots of your trees which you've cared for over a period of years.

The difference between his stock and a garden variety nurseries is night and day, in my opinion his stock should cost two to three times the price as it's much better to work with and the chance of the tree progressing into a bonsai someday is much greater.
 
Have you ever bought a tree from Brent (evergreengardenworks?) I have to say there is a GIANT difference between a nursery grown tree and one he grows. The biggest difference is the roots.

Brents seedlings, and his larger material is in a very loose reasonable particle size organic mix which falls apart when your repot his trees. You can retain the whole root ball most of the time and still fit the tree in an appropriate bonsai pot...

Agreed, I bought this shimpaku from him 2 years ago roots-wrapped, and slip-potted it into this 24" wide mica pot and it's still draining well. When I do repot, I know the soil will come away easily and it will be full of fine roots. That's a big advantage to many places...especially one big nursery a few hours northwest of here ...
 

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Agreed, I bought this shimpaku from him 2 years ago roots-wrapped, and slip-potted it into this 24" wide mica pot and it's still draining well. When I do repot, I know the soil will come away easily and it will be full of fine roots. That's a big advantage to many places...especially one big nursery a few hours northwest of here ...

Nice tree! Thats gonna be great some day.
 
Have you ever bought a tree from Brent (evergreengardenworks?) I have to say there is a GIANT difference between a nursery grown tree and one he grows. The biggest difference is the roots. If you buy a nursery grown tree it may have a great trunk in a 5 gallon container, but more then likely the roots will consist of 3-5 long thick roots with the majority of the feeder roots at the bottom of the container if it has many at all. You can chop it back hard and hope it grows but that's always a chance. I been repotting bonsai for 10+ years I still put it at a 50% chance a nursery tree lives through a bonsai repot. You essentially have to remove all that old bad soil and get the rootball clean for drainage. You also need to decrease the height of the root mass and by doing this you'll most likely cut off 75% of the feeders. If your patient you can plant the whole root ball in pumice for a year or two to grow new feeders at the top of the root ball.

Brents seedlings, and his larger material is in a very loose reasonable particle size organic mix which falls apart when your repot his trees. You can retain the whole root ball most of the time and still fit the tree in an appropriate bonsai pot. His root balls are mostly feeder roots and most of the time you'll either have no tap root or only one short one to deal with. He treats his roots as you'd treat the roots of your trees which you've cared for over a period of years.

The difference between his stock and a garden variety nurseries is night and day, in my opinion his stock should cost two to three times the price as it's much better to work with and the chance of the tree progressing into a bonsai someday is much greater.

Nope, as I said in the part about "humbly apologizing for speaking out of turn" I haven't bought anything from him.

I understand where you are coming from with the difference between a pre bonsai and a nursery grown tree, but I don't see that difference as being so important with seedlings, do you? I mean the chances are good that most people will be planting that seedling in the ground or in a large pot with some sort of heavy nursery soil to produce the most rapid growth possible anyways right?

Hey man, I already said in the post you quoted I was only basing my opinion off of a few plants I looked at on the link provided. I am sure he grows some real nice stuff, but if you want to know the truth I can't spend a whole lot on trees right now so to me personally most of his stuff isn't going to be an option. I HAVE TO grow my own stuff from seedlings, collect stuff from the "wild" (mine and my family's property) or take that Russian roulette shot at repotting a nursery shrub... It isn't that I don't have some money to throw around from time to time but we have kids- one still in diapers- and when I do get some extra cash most of it goes to stuff for them. So I am sorry if my comment was too harsh, you guys have given me a sufficient tongue lashing about it and to be honest the next time I do get some money for a tree... I may well try to buy one of his to see what all the fuss is about! Obviously I am gonna have to save some first though! ;-)

Honestly I have yet to get the guts to order many trees online... It seems such a risk and such a shot in the dark! Most places you can't even see the exact tree you are buying!
 
Nope, as I said in the part about "humbly apologizing for speaking out of turn" I haven't bought anything from him.

I understand where you are coming from with the difference between a pre bonsai and a nursery grown tree, but I don't see that difference as being so important with seedlings, do you? I mean the chances are good that most people will be planting that seedling in the ground or in a large pot with some sort of heavy nursery soil to produce the most rapid growth possible anyways right?

Hey man, I already said in the post you quoted I was only basing my opinion off of a few plants I looked at on the link provided. I am sure he grows some real nice stuff, but if you want to know the truth I can't spend a whole lot on trees right now so to me personally most of his stuff isn't going to be an option. I HAVE TO grow my own stuff from seedlings, collect stuff from the "wild" (mine and my family's property) or take that Russian roulette shot at repotting a nursery shrub... It isn't that I don't have some money to throw around from time to time but we have kids- one still in diapers- and when I do get some extra cash most of it goes to stuff for them. So I am sorry if my comment was too harsh, you guys have given me a sufficient tongue lashing about it and to be honest the next time I do get some money for a tree... I may well try to buy one of his to see what all the fuss is about! Obviously I am gonna have to save some first though! ;-)

Honestly I have yet to get the guts to order many trees online... It seems such a risk and such a shot in the dark! Most places you can't even see the exact tree you are buying!

65 would be a lot for a seedling. But from what I can see on his site the only trees I see for 65 are rare cultivators of 2 year old grafted pines in gallon containers. Not something you'd find at a local nursery. Typically seedlings come in 2 inch containers, sometimes 4 inches. Most of his first year seedlings are under 20. Matt of kaede bonsai is also a great resource for seedlings when you decide to jump into buying online, i've bought mikawas from him in the past and they've been good quality.
 
65 would be a lot for a seedling. But from what I can see on his site the only trees I see for 65 are rare cultivators of 2 year old grafted pines in gallon containers. Not something you'd find at a local nursery. Typically seedlings come in 2 inch containers, sometimes 4 inches. Most of his first year seedlings are under 20. Matt of kaede bonsai is also a great resource for seedlings when you decide to jump into buying online, i've bought mikawas from him in the past and they've been good quality.

Thanks! I have been scouting around a good bit and have been looking at Kaede and Muranaka's site the most I think... I looked back at Evergreen a minute ago and found what appears to be a full list but it was last updated in June I think... This Spring I have thought about trying to order a few this, but I started some cutting and air layers this year that I am not sure about yet... If everything I have in pots takes off... I might to have room to justify buying more right now! That would be a nice problem to have I suppose.... Most of all I am just worried about finding a way to get the damn squirrels to quit attacking my Maples! Rats with fancy tails if you ask me... Wish I could murder every one of them!!
 
Thanks! I have been scouting around a good bit and have been looking at Kaede and Muranaka's site the most I think... I looked back at Evergreen a minute ago and found what appears to be a full list but it was last updated in June I think... This Spring I have thought about trying to order a few this, but I started some cutting and air layers this year that I am not sure about yet... If everything I have in pots takes off... I might to have room to justify buying more right now! That would be a nice problem to have I suppose.... Most of all I am just worried about finding a way to get the damn squirrels to quit attacking my Maples! Rats with fancy tails if you ask me... Wish I could murder every one of them!!

Try this stuff squirrels hate the smell http://www.bonsaioutlet.com/green-d...1-pound-bag/?gclid=CPmB14Di6LsCFTDhQgodFl0AmQ

Or you can use galvanized chicken wire thats what I used on the east coast over my seedling tray. Eventually they'll give up.
 
Thanks! I have been scouting around a good bit and have been looking at Kaede and Muranaka's site the most I think... I looked back at Evergreen a minute ago and found what appears to be a full list but it was last updated in June I think... This Spring I have thought about trying to order a few this, but I started some cutting and air layers this year that I am not sure about yet... If everything I have in pots takes off... I might to have room to justify buying more right now! That would be a nice problem to have I suppose.... Most of all I am just worried about finding a way to get the damn squirrels to quit attacking my Maples! Rats with fancy tails if you ask me... Wish I could murder every one of them!!
A pellet gun is my favorite way of dealing with the rats in a fur coat. Setting rat traps upside down-carefully also has worked for a long time . As soon as they touch it it snaps and scares the heck out of them. But pellet guns are more satisfying.
 
If you're looking to buy actual seedlings, not prebonsai so to speak, there are a number of "whole-sale-ish" tree seedling nurseries that will sell small quanties for really cheap. Evergreen-gardenworks is based around training very young trees as pre-bonsai. Part of the reason for the price. I bought a couple bald cypress seedlings from musser forests last year. Website here: http://www.musserforests.com/default.htm

But expect to get seedlings. Not saplings, not prebonsai. If you're trying to field plant stuff and grow them out so you could have something to work with 10 years down the line then there are much cheaper sources then pre-bonsai dealers.
 
Really? Green Dream? I was planning to buy some this year just for feeding my trees anyway...

Yep Squirrels are lethal fearless rats in Brooklyn NY where I used to live. Green dream works great, however after the rain much of the scent works off and you have to reapply it. I'd usually fill a cup up with it and put it on each bench worked wonders. But I still used chicken wires over sensitive tree roots to make sure just incase a brave one came by.
 
If you're looking to buy actual seedlings, not prebonsai so to speak, there are a number of "whole-sale-ish" tree seedling nurseries that will sell small quanties for really cheap. Evergreen-gardenworks is based around training very young trees as pre-bonsai. Part of the reason for the price. I bought a couple bald cypress seedlings from musser forests last year. Website here: http://www.musserforests.com/default.htm

But expect to get seedlings. Not saplings, not prebonsai. If you're trying to field plant stuff and grow them out so you could have something to work with 10 years down the line then there are much cheaper sources then pre-bonsai dealers.

Forestfarm.com is also great and if you ask they will happily try to pick out a suitable tree for you.
 
. I just ordered some red, white and black pine seedlings from Matt o. I will report back upon receipt but. Have heard lots of good things.

I got my order yesterday and I was pleased.

One red pine already potted with so many roots growing out the bottom it could barely stay up.

5 white pine bare root, little guys as to be expected, ok roots. Put these in little 2.5 inch pots in a coarse mix, akadama, lava and pumice(will i regret the mix being coarse?1/4-3/8 in?).

3 Black pine(but he gave me more than that, nice guy!). Good roots on them. As these are larger i put them into 7 inch pond baskets again in the coarse mix.

I'm hoping they all make it as but since i'm basically new to the seedling game there is always that doubt and thought that I forgot something or did something wrong. I tried to follow the tutorial in the bonsai today pines book. We shall see.

But I am very much pleased with my purchase from matt O and wouldn't hesitate to recommend him.
 
Green Dream is a pretty expensive squirrel deterrent
 
This is true but pellet guns aren't allowed in Brooklyn, in fact killing of squirrels there is actually illegal. Otherwise I too would have been sitting in the backyard with a BB gun.
 
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