Trident maple design

[Jester217300]

The tree is either dying or stressed. Could be overwork, could be an inevitable outcome from transferring a tree from a warmer climate to a colder climate.

When importing trees to your area from a significantly warmer zone it's best practice to leave the tree untouched for 1-2 years in order to allow the tree to adjust to your climate. The root work and pruning could have exacerbated the stress to the tree. Best case it sprouts new leaves with minimal dieback. Worst case it's a goner. Water carefully and keep an eye on it, nothing much else you can do right now.

 

[Shibui]

How long has the tree been in the box?
Did it have leaves when you potted up?
Normally pruning like this would not cause this reaction but if it was only recently potted from bare root sawing can cause the trunk and roots to move in the soil which can break off brand new emerging roots.
looking back at the photos it appears the tree was repotted with leaves open which is the time they need most water but cutting roots to repot compromises water uptake resulting in leaves wilting. I expect that is the main cause of the leaves not looking good. Moving from warm to cold could be another contributing factor.
I'm optimistic. I have seen many tridents go through this and recover, even if all the existing leaves brown and fall. They are very resilient. Chopping the trunks may have been a good thing as it will reduce the need for water while the new roots grow.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Rod]

Just wondering I got this tree from Georgia I live in central Illinois after all this work leaves don’t look real good , is it normal change in climate or something I did or didn’t do?

How long has the tree been in the box?
Did it have leaves when you potted up?
Normally pruning like this would not cause this reaction but if it was only recently potted from bare root sawing can cause the trunk and roots to move in the soil which can break off brand new emerging roots.
looking back at the photos it appears the tree was repotted with leaves open which is the time they need most water but cutting roots to repot compromises water uptake resulting in leaves wilting. I expect that is the main cause of the leaves not looking good. Moving from warm to cold could be another contributing factor.
I'm optimistic. I have seen many tridents go through this and recover, even if all the existing leaves brown and fall. They are very resilient. Chopping the trunks may have been a good thing as it will reduce the need for water while the new roots grow.
Fingers crossed.

It was put in the mail last Tuesday I got it Friday and did all the work Saturday. It looked good out of the delivery box. I reduced the roots about 65% I was going to take more but I decided to take the rest off in a year

 

[Rod]

It was put in the mail last Tuesday I got it Friday and did all the work Saturday. It looked good out of the delivery box. I reduced the roots about 65% I was going to take more but I decided to take the rest off in a year

Starting to leaf out now I guess I’ll let all the branches grow and let tree get healthy then reduce branches to the ones that help design

 

[Rod]

If it is possible try to find a place with small branch on either side of where you want to chop. Make a V cut between those and you have already added more branches to the structure as well as taper from thick to thin. The chop usually heals quicker with a branch growing either side and the scar is less visible.
My crude drawing may help though hard to show on the front trunk as the opposite shoot is hidden behind??
View attachment 480816
Broom style does not usually have a single leader. Branches keep dividing and growing further up and out and dividing into more upward branches to create an umbrella canopy.

Well it been time getting the tree today far, loses all the leaves, but it’s budding and starting to grow branches again. Here is a basic idea I have letting two branches grow at top of each v cut one upward and one outward. Let me know what you think.

 

[Shibui]

Sounds like a reasonable plan but let's see which shoots grow well and work with what you get.

 

[Rod]

Sounds like a reasonable plan but let's see which shoots grow well and work with what you get.

Here is an update on growth. What do you think?

 

[Shibui]

I think all those shoots need to grow for at least a few months to see which do well and whether any don't make it. I don't usually make any decisions until middle of summer when new shoots have grown and hardened up a bit. Chances are if you try to work with it now you will damage some shoots you want to keep.

 

[Rod]

I think all those shoots need to grow for at least a few months to see which do well and whether any don't make it. I don't usually make any decisions until middle of summer when new shoots have grown and hardened up a bit. Chances are if you try to work with it now you will damage some shoots you want to keep.

I can’t believe how much water it needs, if I miss a day a shoot will wilt but water it, and it comes back.

 

[Shibui]

I can’t believe how much water it needs, if I miss a day a shoot will wilt but water it, and it comes back.

Water needs are highest through spring when new shoots are growing fast. Seems to back off a bit later in summer.
Actual water needs will vary with soil type, pot size, exposure to sun/wind, etc. Wilting in spring growth is a good indicator so use that as a guide to how often and how much the tree in this pot/place needs.

 

[Rod]

Water needs are highest through spring when new shoots are growing fast. Seems to back off a bit later in summer.
Actual water needs will vary with soil type, pot size, exposure to sun/wind, etc. Wilting in spring growth is a good indicator so use that as a guide to how often and how much the tree in this pot/place needs.

Thanks

 

[Rod]

At what time of the year do I stop trimming my tridents back, so it stores up enough energy for winter?

 

[Shibui]

At what time of the year do I stop trimming my tridents back, so it stores up enough energy for winter?

A couple of assumptions here that may not be valid so the question could also be flawed.

All leaves on a tree are contributing to energy stores all year so I do not believe that trimming must stop at any point to provide winter stores as they are being laid in all summer.
Late trimming can push a flush of new growth when the tree should be going dormant. Those late shoots can then be frosted but should not be a problem long term but I do not have experience with il. cold so not sure. The worst I get is late shoots may not drop leaves for winter but winter here is not cold enough so leaves persist right through to spring when new growth starts and cycles return to normal.
Hopefully someone more local can advise on trimming cut off times for your climate.

 

[luvinthemountains]

A couple of assumptions here that may not be valid so the question could also be flawed.

All leaves on a tree are contributing to energy stores all year so I do not believe that trimming must stop at any point to provide winter stores as they are being laid in all summer.
Late trimming can push a flush of new growth when the tree should be going dormant. Those late shoots can then be frosted but should not be a problem long term but I do not have experience with il. cold so not sure. The worst I get is late shoots may not drop leaves for winter but winter here is not cold enough so leaves persist right through to spring when new growth starts and cycles return to normal.
Hopefully someone more local can advise on trimming cut off times for your climate.

I am also curious about the answer to @Rod's question pertaining to cold climates. Their area gets a lot colder than mine in the winter, but right now temps are close to the same.

I do have one data point from my experience. Almost exactly one year ago, I bought a big trident from a landscape nursery and chopped it to a stump. Sometime in late September, it threw a sprout from below the chop that grew vigorously for a month, then it froze and just...withered. Late this spring, just before I about tossed the tree, it started to grow and currently has about three feet of growth.

Some observations on this *little* experiment. By mid-August, the tree had stored away pretty impressive energy reserves. By chopping it, I completely stopped all photosynthesis and prompted a growth response. The tree expended some amount of energy activating and breaking growth from an adventitious bud, leaving a reduced amount (X-Y) of energy in the wood/roots. But frost killing the new growth did not kill the tree, meaning it was probably still able to compartmentalize the damage and enter dormancy notwithstanding total removal of leaves and apical buds. This is an extreme example, and I would not put money on any tree withstanding similar treatment year over year. Take it for what it's worth.

I have some notes that say you can push a tree to set more buds by pruning in "early fall" whatever that means. I didn't take down the source. For @Rod, I am guessing early fall is right about now. Hopefully someone who knows better will chime in.

 

[luvinthemountains]

Shoot, I just went back and re-read this thread, then remembered that this trident has been through a lot this year already. @Rod, were I in your situation, I would probably just leave it alone and see how it grows next spring. And I would keep it in a heated shed to prevent it freezing too much. Good luck!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Unless the goal is to test the limits of the endurance of trident maples, it seems you are in a really good position to call it done for this year.

Let the tree gather whatever resources it can to protect itself for the winter.

Once the leaves absciss one could do some minor shoot selection, research and plan for the next year.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Rod]

Sorry I was in the wrong thread I’m letting this one grow a couple of years before trimming. I thought I was on my forest thread

 

[Rod]

Here is some updated pictures of my trident I’m following your advice and letting it grow no pruning, till branches get to the thickness I want. Thanks for all your help. You all are great.

 

[Shibui]

Terrific response to the V cut and great subsequent growth shows you are looking after this one very well.
Definitely be patient and allow the shoots to grow this summer. Reassess after the leaves fall and you can see where each shoot start and go to. That's the time to make some decisions on structural branches to retain and where to chop them back this year.

 

[Rod]

Terrific response to the V cut and great subsequent growth shows you are looking after this one very well.
Definitely be patient and allow the shoots to grow this summer. Reassess after the leaves fall and you can see where each shoot start and go to. That's the time to make some decisions on structural branches to retain and where to chop them back this year.

I’m wanting the branches to look the appropriate size to the trunk, not sure what that diameter is, or how tall that is. Each branch coming off the v cuts have a few side branches, do I want to keep those trimmed back to slow their growth or just let them grow to a similar size. I know what I want the tree to look like in the end, it just getting there is where all the questions are without losing time to regrow anything. I don’t want to keep cutting big, each cut should get smaller and smallerI’m wanting a more natural look if that’s with one apex or two