Trident Maple Fail

[Drew]

So this one was planted the in the ground for a few years WITHOUT anything under it and you can see the results in 2016, I took some of the bottom off hoping for root higher and put them into a box.



This is it in March 2017:




An this is what Im thinking:



So now my question is how best would you put the root on the left side? I have not got any seedlings so Im thinking of
1. Approach grafting some roots onto this side using longer roots that have grown last season
2. Air layering this side if the tree
3. Cutting all of the root wood up the the level I want roots to grow.

Which option would you go for? or is that other options I've missed?

 

[BobbyLane]

if you plan on using that thick right branch as a leader, i wouldnt worry about the left side of the nebari. because i would slant the tree towards the left and bring that right branch upwards a bit. its normal for a tree leaning left to have a stronger right side. would also give the tree some movement. but thats just me

 

[Cadillactaste]

Got yourself a great project there!

 

[Smoke]

Once again think it thru. If you cut all that business off on the left, how will you grow that flare and footage in that place on the trunk with nothing above to support it. Trees have to be built in stages and they have to be reverse engineered to get all the correct parts in place before taking the top off or the branches.

 

[garywood]

Drew, underneath the trunk should be removed, everything. then only lateral roots grow which encourages basal flair.

 

[Dav4]

You've got the beginnings of a pretty decent root spread there... you just need to have it ramify. I agree w/ Al and Gary... don't cut away too much of the canopy just yet- it's ok to shorten those leaders but don't fully remove... and cut everything below the meat of the trunk, leaving the lateral root spread to grow out.

 

[River's Edge]

So this one was planted the in the ground for a few years WITHOUT anything under it and you can see the results in 2016, I took some of the bottom off hoping for root higher and put them into a box.

View attachment 228544

This is it in March 2017:

View attachment 228551
View attachment 228556

An this is what Im thinking:

View attachment 228558

So now my question is how best would you put the root on the left side? I have not got any seedlings so Im thinking of
1. Approach grafting some roots onto this side using longer roots that have grown last season
2. Air layering this side if the tree
3. Cutting all of the root wood up the the level I want roots to grow.

Which option would you go for? or is that other options I've missed?

It is moving along quite nicely. Well done.
I would slow the growth on the right side branch a bit ( possibly creating further bud back and apical options). Leave the rest of the top growth in place and continue to develop the base with further reduction underneath and re-assess the possible apex options after further development.

 

[Shibui]

I think the layering will be your best option. Grafting small roots into a great, fat trunk is not easy to match cambium. Cutting all the roots to the level required can work and may be the quickest way but does have some risks that the entire side of the tree may not produce roots and die. Ground layer rather than air layer would be preferable. Just remove a horizontal strip of bark where you want the roots (new roots will grow from the UPPER edge of the cut), treat with rooting compound then replant (on the new angle) so that the cut is around 2cm deep. Make sure the area does not get really dry over summer.
Existing roots will feed the trunk until new ones can take over. Existing branches will provide food and hormones? to stimulate new roots. By next year (fingers crossed) you should be able to saw off the lower roots.
I would also shorten all those new roots on the right to promote better root ramification. Over here I would cut all trident roots at around 2cm from the trunk or where they fork from main roots. Nebari is like branching above. Looks best when ramification starts closer to the trunk and that is best achieved by hard pruning early.

I can see that removing that great bulge on the left will leave a large scar but tridents can heal reasonably quickly while you develop all the structure of your tree.

 

[Drew]

Once again think it thru. If you cut all that business off on the left, how will you grow that flare and footage in that place on the trunk with nothing above to support it. Trees have to be built in stages and they have to be reverse engineered to get all the correct parts in place before taking the top off or the branches.

Thanks Al, I wasn’t planning on taking any of the foliage off at this stage as you say, I’m only interested in getting the nebari at the right angle first.

 

[Drew]

I think the layering will be your best option. Grafting small roots into a great, fat trunk is not easy to match cambium. Cutting all the roots to the level required can work and may be the quickest way but does have some risks that the entire side of the tree may not produce roots and die. Ground layer rather than air layer would be preferable. Just remove a horizontal strip of bark where you want the roots (new roots will grow from the UPPER edge of the cut), treat with rooting compound then replant (on the new angle) so that the cut is around 2cm deep. Make sure the area does not get really dry over summer.
Existing roots will feed the trunk until new ones can take over. Existing branches will provide food and hormones? to stimulate new roots. By next year (fingers crossed) you should be able to saw off the lower roots.
I would also shorten all those new roots on the right to promote better root ramification. Over here I would cut all trident roots at around 2cm from the trunk or where they fork from main roots. Nebari is like branching above. Looks best when ramification starts closer to the trunk and that is best achieved by hard pruning early.

I can see that removing that great bulge on the left will leave a large scar but tridents can heal reasonably quickly while you develop all the structure of your tree.

Thanks @Shibui the ground layer at the new angle is the way I was leaning towards as well. This operation is being done today so I’ll keep you posted.

 

[Drew]

Second thoughts.... on timing, the buds are breaking now so normally I would be repotting it but as I’ll be doing a half ground later on it’s left side should I wait for the leaves to harden off or could I do it now like a normal repot?

 

[Shibui]

I have done several of these half layers at normal spring repotting time. No problems noticed so far.

 

[Drew]

So I removed it from its box and cut away the roots that had filled the bottom under the wood board:


Then the rest

 

[Drew]

 

[just.wing.it]

Looks cool! Are you sure you got all the cambium?

 

[Shibui]

Looks cool! Are you sure you got all the cambium?

It is a trident. They usually love to grow new roots just at the surface. Probably would have put out roots even without taking the bark off.

The trunk still looks a bit too upright and the bend just a bit too horizontal in the final images. Hope it can tilt a bit further at the next repot.

 

[Drew]

no I didn't ring bark all the way around the tree i left some of the existing roots on the right side untouched. Fingers crossed I get loads of roots where I want them.

 

[Shibui]

no I didn't ring bark all the way around the tree i left some of the existing roots on the right side untouched. Fingers crossed I get loads of roots where I want them.

I think Just Wing It was talking about getting the cambium where you did take off the bark. We normally scrape the wood to remove all traces of cambium because some species would rather heal over than grow new roots. If there's any trace of cambium left on the bare section it just turns into new bark. That should not be such a problem with trident maple.

 

[Drew]

I used a gremel to take the bark/cambium off so i def got all the layers then cleaned the top edge off with a knife. That slimy stuff you can see in the pics is root hormone gel not the sugar layer you find under the outer bark so should be good.