Trident Maple

[dlayton]

So I picked up this bad boy today. 40inches tall. 11 inch nebari. I think itll be a very very exciting project. Now I am going to sit back and watch her grow this year.

anybody got any ideas as to what, if anything I need to do? Where would you take it? Front? Like any of the existing branches? Anywho, not looking todo anything really, just looking for you ideas!

sorry about the pics. My truck is the blankest blackest background I have right now!

 

[james]

You have a promising start. Great size and taper. What I would consider doing now: Manage big chops, try to get them to heal over on trunk. Work nebari, squeak in repot this year or next, likely big root chops as well. Define front, and select suitable lower branches. Wire them into place. Define leader, let it grow unchecked. Cut off all other branches not originating from usable spots. Don't want multiple branches arising from one spot.
Determine if you will need to graft new branches (where you don't have them now, and let a couple whips grow to graft next winter. Great start.

 

[dlayton]

Thanks!!!

How much taller do you think it needs to get in order to be in proportion? I was thinking another 12-16 inches.
It’s been out of the ground a few years and was just put in this big pot last year. I’m not going to repot it until next year. Actually may change the pot. This one is heavy as the dickens!!!
It has a few big wounds that need good healing. That was the one thing I forgot. I will clean those up ASAP and get those going!!
Where do you see the front being? Prelim, this is my favorite right now. But going to let it come to me!

 

[Shibui]

That maple does not need to be taller. It is quite a long way from lower branches to the top. In the end I think the height will be lower than now.
I suspect the comment about growing unchecked is based on healing the chops. Lots of growth above will put on wood which will grow over the cuts. Growth is what makes scars heal over but that growth is usually only temporary. Apical sacrifice branches can be allowed to grow to get temporary leaf mass that will fuel healing then removed. Provided the new cuts are smaller than the older ones you will be making progress.
Regular maintenance pruning at this stage will result in very, very slow healing of any open scars on the trunk. If that does not bother you feel free to move to regular trimming to create and maintain ramification.

Lowest branches are still pretty thin. That's normal for fast grown trunks but they will always lag behind when the top is strong and bushy as it currently is. At some stage I think you should allow one or more sacrifice shoots to grow from those branches to aid thickening. Trident are quite apical dominant so you may even need to slow the apex to get good growth down below - defoliation or harder pruning - but that will counter the growth to heal scars so cannot be done at the same time.

You have a great trunk and a good start to a great bonsai but do not be fooled into thinking it is close to finished. Still lots of work to be done and quite a few years to take this to the next level.

 

[MrWunderful]

That is a chunker. Curious to see if the nebari is flat, or just wide.

I agree with @Shibui the final tree is probably 3/5 the height of that tree.

If it were mine, I would let it run this year while feeding aggressively and cutting back the strong top once this year. Maybe put some movement into the lower branches and thin out branch clumps.

Next year get the roots sorted out, into whatever soil you choose, chop it back to a new leader, grow the new sacrifice out while starting to develop the secondary branching.

 

[dlayton]

That maple does not need to be taller. It is quite a long way from lower branches to the top. In the end I think the height will be lower than now.
I suspect the comment about growing unchecked is based on healing the chops. Lots of growth above will put on wood which will grow over the cuts. Growth is what makes scars heal over but that growth is usually only temporary. Apical sacrifice branches can be allowed to grow to get temporary leaf mass that will fuel healing then removed. Provided the new cuts are smaller than the older ones you will be making progress.
Regular maintenance pruning at this stage will result in very, very slow healing of any open scars on the trunk. If that does not bother you feel free to move to regular trimming to create and maintain ramification.

Lowest branches are still pretty thin. That's normal for fast grown trunks but they will always lag behind when the top is strong and bushy as it currently is. At some stage I think you should allow one or more sacrifice shoots to grow from those branches to aid thickening. Trident are quite apical dominant so you may even need to slow the apex to get good growth down below - defoliation or harder pruning - but that will counter the growth to heal scars so cannot be done at the same time.

You have a great trunk and a good start to a great bonsai but do not be fooled into thinking it is close to finished. Still lots of work to be done and quite a few years to take this to the next level.

Shorter? Wow. Never thought that! I understand what you’re saying about the growth and branches. I’m going to let it grow to help with healing!

Could I also let the lower branches that I intend to keep grow as well? Kinda heal and thicken at the same time?

thanks comments! And I in no way feel that this is an almost complete project!

 

[dlayton]

That is a chunker. Curious to see if the nebari is flat, or just wide.

I agree with @Shibui the final tree is probably 3/5 the height of that tree.

If it were mine, I would let it run this year while feeding aggressively and cutting back the strong top once this year. Maybe put some movement into the lower branches and thin out branch clumps.

Next year get the roots sorted out, into whatever soil you choose, chop it back to a new leader, grow the new sacrifice out while starting to develop the secondary branching.

3/5??? Wow. Can you draw it for me? Lemme see your vision!

 

[Shibui]

Could I also let the lower branches that I intend to keep grow as well? Kinda heal and thicken at the same time?

Definitely. In fact growing those lower branches thicker is a must for such a massive trunk. Lower branch growth will not help heal cuts above. Growth only seems to help with healing between there and the roots.

My vision would be for a reduction in height of around 20-30%, possibly even a little more if you are brave enough. That may seem radical given you have purchased all that growth but would give even more emphasis to the trunk.

 

[MrWunderful]

3/5??? Wow. Can you draw it for me? Lemme see your vision!

Im only looking at a 2d pic but,

Is what I was thinking, cutting back to the next branch below red line. Also hope for buds or grafts on the trunk, and develop them to fill in space where needed.

 

[dlayton]

Im only looking at a 2d pic but,
View attachment 362964
Is what I was thinking, cutting back to the next branch below red line. Also hope for buds or grafts on the trunk, and develop them to fill in space where needed.

Holy cow! You just broke my heart!!!!

 

[MrWunderful]

Holy cow! You just broke my heart!!!!

Sorry not trying to be brutal!

Its your tree, im just a guy on the internet. A guy who happens to like taters!

Ive been in your position, and the answer is almost always “lower than you think”. Especially with a scale like that.

 

[dlayton]

Sorry not trying to be brutal!

Its your tree, im just a guy on the internet. A guy who happens to like taters!

Ive been in your position, and the answer is almost always “lower than you think”. Especially with a scale like that.

Oh you got my mind racing now! This is going to be fun!

 

[Shibui]

Is what I was thinking, cutting back to the next branch below red line. Also hope for buds or grafts on the trunk, and develop them to fill in space where needed.

Also the first option I saw too. That cut brings the apex back over the base of the tree and stops it looking like it will fall over.
It is a lot of tree to take off but tridents grow quick and would develop a new crown in 3-5 years. One option would be to use the current apex to help heal the cuts further down the trunk while developing the lower branches and new apex then finally lop off the top when some of that has been achieved. That will still leave one large, new cut to heal up.
Or you could go for the final cut this year and use sacrifice branches on all keepers to do the thickening and healing and get a head start on healing the new upper chop. More likely to get new buds growing with a hard chop V leaving the current apex.

Note the qualification of viewing one side of a 2D photo. You should always consider advice in light of the viewers can only see part of the tree. You and other locals can see the whole thing and consider more options that may be available from other viewing points and considering how branches emerge from trunk and the direction they really grow as opposed to how they appear in a photo.

 

[dlayton]

Also the first option I saw too. That cut brings the apex back over the base of the tree and stops it looking like it will fall over.
It is a lot of tree to take off but tridents grow quick and would develop a new crown in 3-5 years. One option would be to use the current apex to help heal the cuts further down the trunk while developing the lower branches and new apex then finally lop off the top when some of that has been achieved. That will still leave one large, new cut to heal up.
Or you could go for the final cut this year and use sacrifice branches on all keepers to do the thickening and healing and get a head start on healing the new upper chop. More likely to get new buds growing with a hard chop V leaving the current apex.

Note the qualification of viewing one side of a 2D photo. You should always consider advice in light of the viewers can only see part of the tree. You and other locals can see the whole thing and consider more options that may be available from other viewing points and considering how branches emerge from trunk and the direction they really grow as opposed to how they appear in a photo.

Are you asking if I have a sinsei? Yes. Yes I do!!!

I like the idea of cutting final cut now... but now will be nest year! I wanna study on it a while!

thanks!!!

 

[leatherback]

I had exactly the same thought for a new cut. It would also help to continue the taper you have in the trunk now. You could consider layer instead of brutally cutting. That would give you 2 trees in one whammy.

If this were mine, I would repot this year. Clean up all the cuts and cover with cutpaste if still healthy, reduce clumps of branches to one usefull one and just let it grow a bit, let things swell and grow over scars. Interesting project; I am in similar waters but I am sure yours will move much faster with the warmer climate)

 

[sorce]

Since that extra top is quite far away and not likely to grow so as to make your next chop wound any larger soon, I'd keep all that growth to aid in these Repot, grafting, root grafting, wound healing projects for a while.

Maybe begin designing it as its own on the tree for layer later.

The only thing staying that stands out to me is the shelf created by that one old upward branch cut.
Looks difficult to "pretty", but if you can....
That straight across line is looking real man made.

Nice.

Broke your heart heh? FAIR.
but we would have actually died if you left that junk up there!

Sorce

 

[jkg777]

So I picked up this bad boy today. 40inches tall. 11 inch nebari. I think itll be a very very exciting project. Now I am going to sit back and watch her grow this year.

Where did you purchase this from? I'm looking for a large trident maple and not sure where I might find one. Thanks

 

[leatherback]

from this side it actually looks pretty good as is:

 

[leatherback]

the carving and closing will still take a bit of time but..

 

[dlayton]

I had exactly the same thought for a new cut. It would also help to continue the taper you have in the trunk now. You could consider layer instead of brutally cutting. That would give you 2 trees in one whammy.

If this were mine, I would repot this year. Clean up all the cuts and cover with cutpaste if still healthy, reduce clumps of branches to one usefull one and just let it grow a bit, let things swell and grow over scars. Interesting project; I am in similar waters but I am sure yours will move much faster with the warmer climate)

Air layering the top is very interesting!

holy cow that’s a fat one! Nice tree. Going to look good eventually!