undercutting mugo branch

[0soyoung]

Adair described exactly what I was referring to...

I understand that now; his words to explain that the bonsai argot "notching a branch [down]" actually means notching the trunk to which the branch is attached.

As far as the pine in the video goes... That is just trying to hard to make something out of nothing for my taste....that tree may have survived...the photos at the end of the video show the wire off but guy wires still attached....however that trunk is permanently weakened and I wouldn't want to have to be the one to work on it in the future.

In my experience, going to such extremes just to create something out of less than desirable material, may make a decent video/demo but rarely results in a long term success.

I'm not impressed with that tree either. BUT, are you saying (or would you say) that there is only one circumstance in which a notch should be cut into a tree and that is into the trunk just above a branch (i.e., at the branch crotch)?

It will look excellent with the tags hanging from it stating, "do not touch here, or here, or here, or here".

For a few years. But won't there be at least one point where the cambium of each side is in contact after the branch is bent to close the notch? Then, with due care to prevent dehydation (e.g., liberal application of cut paste, grafting wax, saran, parafilm), wouldn't this just be like any other graft? Eventually the cut is bridged by wood and each season that layer of wood bridging the cut(s) will get thicker and stronger.

 

[Vance Wood]

Amazing!!!

 

[clevetromba]

Amazing!!!

Ah, good I was hoping you would weigh in! What are your thoughts on undercutting vs. "top notching" on Mugo pines for lowering a branch?
BTW, my branch not only needs to be lowered, but moved back quite a bit.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have never found undercutting a branch to be an option I had to resort to because wire would not take care of the problem. Mugos are very flexible and unless the branch is relatively thick undercutting it may not be necessary. As to the assessment; the branch needs to be moved back a bit. I am not sure what you are saying here/ or asking?

 

[clevetromba]

I don't think I'm asking anything else at the moment, just idle talk while I wait for Spring to arrive. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[Babysumo]

So is it OK to do in spring or is summer better!? Seems one of the questions was forgotten.

 

[Vance Wood]

So is it OK to do in spring or is summer better!? Seems one of the questions was forgotten.

The best time to do the cutting into branches is during the first couple of weeks in June, as long as the tree is healthy and vigorous;

 

[Babysumo]

The best time to do the cutting into branches is during the first couple of weeks in June, as long as the tree is healthy and vigorous;

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate the advice

 

[Vance Wood]

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate the advice

You still have not posted pictures of the areas where you plan this procedure or the reasons for doing so, I would really like to see them and know what you intend to do. If you do this is June and you are able to close up the wounds correctly the tree will heal well by the end of summer. If the wound is not positioned properly and the cambiums do not align it will be a disaster. You also have to use a very sharp saw.

 

[Babysumo]

You still have not posted pictures of the areas where you plan this procedure or the reasons for doing so, I would really like to see them and know what you intend to do. If you do this is June and you are able to close up the wounds correctly the tree will heal well by the end of summer. If the wound is not positioned properly and the cambiums do not align it will be a disaster. You also have to use a very sharp saw.

Hey vance so sorry for the late reply I plan on cascading it! I've had the Mugo for awhile now. Never knew what to do with it or how, until trying now that the season is more favourable. In the image I plan to bring the left long side down hopefully achieveing this by the vnotch or undercutting techniques. The general hopeful idea is to do this by v notching the trunk. So how off am I? As always your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Vance Wood]

Hey vance so sorry for the late reply I plan on cascading it! I've had the Mugo for awhile now. Never knew what to do with it or how, until trying now that the season is more favourable. In the image I plan to bring the left long side down hopefully achieveing this by the vnotch or undercutting techniques. The general hopeful idea is to do this by v notching the trunk. So how off am I? As always your advice is greatly appreciated. View attachment 358706

Two ways to approach this problem/idea without cutting the tree. First wrap the branch in raffia, then plant the tree on an angle, almost on its side with the left branch facing down. Then put 3mm aluminum wire on the branch (clockwise) so as to give it some movement, with and equal amount of wire on the right branch. put some movement in the right branch to make it look like a reasonable upright to the cascade branch. From the looks of the tree it is probably a Mugus Mugo. The respond very well to bonsai training. Leave the wire on the branches for a year or until it starts to gut into the branches.

 

[Babysumo]

Ooo love that Idea one of the things I love most about this bonsai journey, is the eye for its design your image is a very exciting less, lose my baby approach. I look forward to one day having the same eyes Again thank you!

At the risk of becoming a nuisance can I pick your brain abit more? Would you leave this new approach till June as well? As its less surgery and more Deep tissue massage. On the repot( pushing he's luck) what medium mix would you use in your Mugo experience for recovery n General happy after? There is alot of argument/ advice on best Mugo soils. You being the Mugo king I thought who better to ask.

Again thank you very much for your time and advice I look forward to my mugos next steps.

 

[Adair M]

Oso...I respect your knowledge of plant physiology ....what I said is just my experience...no science. Adair described exactly what I was referring to...

As far as the pine in the video goes... That is just trying to hard to make something out of nothing for my taste....that tree may have survived...the photos at the end of the video show the wire off but guy wires still attached....however that trunk is permanently weakened and I wouldn't want to have to be the one to work on it in the future.

In my experience, going to such extremes just to create something out of less than desirable material, may make a decent video/demo but rarely results in a long term success.

John, I have heard, from a “usually reliable source”, that the tree in Ryan’s video did not survive.

 

[Vance Wood]

Ooo love that Idea one of the things I love most about this bonsai journey, is the eye for its design your image is a very exciting less, lose my baby approach. I look forward to one day having the same eyes Again thank you!

At the risk of becoming a nuisance can I pick your brain abit more? Would you leave this new approach till June as well? As its less surgery and more Deep tissue massage. On the repot( pushing he's luck) what medium mix would you use in your Mugo experience for recovery n General happy after? There is alot of argument/ advice on best Mugo soils. You being the Mugo king I thought who better to ask.

Again thank you very much for your time and advice I look forward to my mugos next steps.

I usually do my root work on Mugos after the middle of June, many say you should do them in the early Spring, but most of "They" don't have a single Mugo, I have a lot of them.

Here is one of my Shohin

 

[Vance Wood]

As to soils. I use 1 part composted Pine bark mulch, 1 part Pumice, 1 part red volcanic gravel, andt one part calcined clay. I do not apologize for the Pine bark mulch, I find the micorhizia development is better. I no longer use #3 swiming pool filter sand. I can no longer find it.

 

[Babysumo]

I usually do my root work on Mugos after the middle of June, many say you should do them in the early Spring, but most of "They" don't have a single Mugo, I have a lot of them.

Here is one of my Shohin
View attachment 358954

Absolutely gorgeous this tree has made me even more excited about Mugo's

 

[Babysumo]

Brilliant thank you. Calcined clay? Never heard of it probs because I'm a newbie will look into it. An the pine bark seems to be gospil so I wouldn't think apologies are required. Again this is exactly why I asked you, I've been given very different advice before.

As to soils. I use 1 part composted Pine bark mulch, 1 part Pumice, 1 part red volcanic gravel, andt one part calcined clay. I do not apologize for the Pine bark mulch, I find the micorhizia development is better. I no longer use #3 swiming pool filter sand. I can no longer find it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Brilliant thank you. Calcined clay? Never heard of it probs because I'm a newbie will look into it. An the pine bark seems to be gospil so I wouldn't think apologies are required. Again this is exactly why I asked you, I've been given very different advice before.

Ask around your local nurseries for it. It is available in several forms from Kitty Litter to Akadama. It can also be found as Oil Dry. Just make sure you sift out the fines.

 

[Vance Wood]

Large Mugo from a nursery tree in 3 gallon container started in 1996


My $2.98 Mugo around 1999



Shohin started in 2000 from atwo gallon nursery tree.

 

[Babysumo]

Large Mugo from a nursery tree in 3 gallon container started in 1996

View attachment 359077
My $2.98 Mugo around 1999


View attachment 359078
Shohin started in 2000 from atwo gallon nursery tree.

View attachment 359080

Thank you ill ask around an stop those are gorgeous mugos of that quality are now a bucket list affair for me, thanx for putting my love for them into hyper drive! Need more!!!