Unique maple varieties

[Nybonsai12]

I'm always sorting through the various vendor websites for interesting material or a rare variety. Doesn't seem to be a great amount available outside the standard types. I was looking through Smoke's blog and specifically the one on different types of tridents. I don't think i have ever seen anyone on Bnut post anything but the standard trident.

Why is the naruta Kaede not used more? is it just availability? I have seen small 4 inch pots available on brents website and maybe slightly larger 1-2 feet elsewhere. I'd really like to give one of these rolled edge leaved maples a try, looks pretty cool. Also the variety that looks like a frog hand that the name escapes me. I don't see anybody selling though.

Then there is J. Maple, outside of standard palmatums, we do have more variety here at Bnut, some Kiyohime, some arakawa and some of those sharps pygmys. Mach has his show stoppers and there is BVF"s Shishio? But not too many others.

So are we not seeing more specialty varities due to availability of stock? Do the other varieties posess negative charateristics for bonsai? I think i'm gonna buy up some of these rare cultivars if I can find them to mess around with.

 

[barrosinc]

Some good questions, I am interested in knowing too.
I have always thought other cultivars are higher maintenance or do not root well in bonsai pots.

But I hope to hear from more experienced bonsaiers

 

[RKatzin]

If you're looking for rare and obscure tree species you must look at Forestfarm.com. Ray has collected trees from around the globe. A fascinating and wonderful place 20mi from me. Stroll through their catalog when you have a day to waste, there's alot to look at. Rick

 

[Nybonsai12]

If you're looking for rare and obscure tree species you must look at Forestfarm.com. Ray has collected trees from around the globe. A fascinating and wonderful place 20mi from me. Stroll through their catalog when you have a day to waste, there's alot to look at. Rick

Funny you say that because i have been looking at their site. I first heard about them by reading about Fred Trucks contorted quince I think it was because he stated he purchased from them. They seem to have a lot of different varieties, many if not all of the ones I mentioned. 1'-2' trees. not too shabby. Also wondering on how the quality of the stock compares.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I've always wondered about the Arakawa as there exist other rough bark maples. It may be that it's just well knonw.

As for other A. palmatum cultivars, my guess is that it's easy to get seedlings and the cultivar isn't so important as the characteristics for bonsai. Also most cultivars are grafted on to A.p. root stocks; you'd likely need to air layer to have a cultivar with a natural looking trunk. It'd be easier just to use a developed rootstock. I've seen many with nice trunks with foundation for good nebari development.

I'm hoping that in a decade my maples would be interesting enough to be shared and add to the forum.

 

[barrosinc]

Even though they can be airlayered or started from cuttings, why aren't they used more in bonsai?

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I think i'm gonna buy up some of these rare cultivars if I can find them to mess around with.

When I was in a gotta collect 'em all phase with Japanese maples, I stumbled on Website that sold some very unsual ones. I can't remember for sure but I think it is this one. They had leaves that resemble nothing like a maple leaf. I'm not talking about just the koto no ito strange. Their leaves are just unrecognizeable as Japanese maples.

I used to search for the rare and unusual maples but then, one of the reasons Japanese maples are so beautiful is because of their traditional looking leaves.

 

[Dav4]

I'm a huge fan of smaller maples in general and, when I lived in MA, started collecting them At one point, I had probably 25 A. palmatum cultivars planted in my yard, plus several closely related maple species including snake barks, tridents, full moon, etc..

Here's the thing: the characteristics that make these cultivars desirable in the landscape- small size and slow growth habit, variegated or extremely dissected foliage, exfoliating, striped bark, etc.- might disqualify them as being good bonsai subjects. Striped bark or brightly colored foliage may visually overwhelm a bonsai. Also, generally speaking, slow growing "dwarf" trees, trees with variegated foliage or highly dissected leaves are not that vigorous. Put them in a pot and subject them to bonsai culture and they can become down right fragile, not to mention that they're all typically grafted and may not do well on their own roots. Anyway, I think these are a few of the main reasons why more maple cultivars aren't seen as bonsai.

 

[barrosinc]

but even if they are fragile, I have seen chishio, arakawa and deshojo maples, but I don't see as many as I would think to see...

 

[Dav4]

but even if they are fragile, I have seen chishio, arakawa and deshojo maples, but I don't see as many as I would think to see...

The ones you mention are upright growing varieties...I don't consider these to be fragile cultivars. I agree that I haven't seen many chishios as bonsai, but have seen many arakawa and deshojo bonsai.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I'm a huge fan of smaller maples in general and, when I lived in MA, started collecting them At one point, I had probably 25 A. palmatum cultivars planted in my yard, plus several closely related maple species including snake barks, tridents, full moon, etc..

Here's the thing: the characteristics that make these cultivars desirable in the landscape- small size and slow growth habit, variegated or extremely dissected foliage, exfoliating, striped bark, etc.- might disqualify them as being good bonsai subjects. Striped bark or brightly colored foliage may visually overwhelm a bonsai. Also, generally speaking, slow growing "dwarf" trees, trees with variegated foliage or highly dissected leaves are not that vigorous. Put them in a pot and subject them to bonsai culture and they can become down right fragile, not to mention that they're all typically grafted and may not do well on their own roots. Anyway, I think these are a few of the main reasons why more maple cultivars aren't seen as bonsai.

Kind of what I figured when it comes to the J. Maples. But what about Tridents? I never see anything other than standard trident.

 

[Nybonsai12]

The ones you mention are upright growing dissectums...I don't consider these to be fragile cultivars. I agree that I haven't seen many chishios as bonsai, but have seen many arakawa and deshojo bonsai.

Two i'm after, chishio and deshojo, very difficult to find stock.

 

[Dav4]

I've had one other trident cultivar other then the one (the species A. buergeranum?) that seems ubiquitous in the hobby. I don't remember name but do recall that it had leaves that were more rounded...ugly imho...and it wasn't nearly as vigorous. It was planted in my yard and didn't last a season. I don't miss it.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I didn't know people had a hard time getting these maples. Perhaps I should air layer more shin deshojo and make a few available each year . on the side, I had to chase a couple of squirrels from my maples yesterday like Elmer Fudd.

 

[GrimLore]

I've had one other trident cultivar other then the one (the species A. buergeranum?) that seems ubiquitous in the hobby. I don't remember name but do recall that it had leaves that were more rounded...ugly imho...and it wasn't nearly as vigorous. It was planted in my yard and didn't last a season. I don't miss it.

I have seen very few Trident maple (Acer buergerianum) Bonsai but the ones I have seen are quite nice, seems the foliage reduces well and the fall color is great. We have so many growing wild in our yard and gutters my Wife took a picture of a bunch I cut with the lawnmower a bit ago. If anything they seem hardy.

Grimmy

 

[Nybonsai12]

I didn't know people had a hard time getting these maples. Perhaps I should air layer more shin deshojo and make a few available each year . on the side, I had to chase a couple of squirrels from my maples yesterday like Elmer Fudd.

I bet you would have buyers. I don't know of anywhere in the US that deshojo or chishio is grown for the purpose of bonsai. Anything in those varieties is either landscape grafted trees or very small on it's own roots that needs to be grown out for years. And for odd tridents I think there are even less to be found.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I think the problem is standard nursery methods use grafting to propagate the various JM cultivars. So it is rare to find A. palmatum cultivars on their own roots. Graft unions are notoriously difficult to hide. I picked up a dozen grafted varieties with the thought toward air layering them off their root stocks. I have not had the time to follow on with the project.

The often repeated phrase 'they don't do well on their own roots' has a basis in reality, particularly for dissectum types, but it does not hold true universally. I just don't have a list of which ones do survive well on their own roots. But some definitely have potential.

I briefly owned a A. palmatum 'Hime Shojo', sometimes listed as "Shojo Hime". I think this cultivar will be wonderful as bonsai once you get one on its own roots. Delightful red bark, red patterned leaf dwarf. I think it could be used as a colorful alternative to Koto Hime and the other dwarf yatsubusa types. For this one too, late spring hard frosts are fatal.

'Akane' has unique orange yellow spring and fall foliage and looks ideal for bonsai, but did prove delicate, it hates late spring frosts. Perished without any cuttings in my care to carry on.

'Beni Otake' has nice narrow leaf segments, red leaves, a willow leaf cultivar, larger leaf and more robust growing than 'Koto-no-Ito', I think it has potential as bonsai. Maybe for medium to larger sizes. Tolerates a late spring freeze nicely.

Arakawa is a vigorous, easy grower, and can be used for almost any size or style of bonsai, it has a lot of good cultural traits. The other wart bark types are more quirky. Nishiki Gawa is notorious for being a touchy grower, and it was true to its reputation in my care, perished in my late spring freeze. Ibo Nishiki is a pine bark type, rather than warty bark, and tolerates late spring freezes. Evergreen Gardenworks is selling rooted cuttings of this one at modest prices for young cuttings. Worth looking into. My cutting is in its second year with me and seems to be fine. It will need time. Ibo Nishiki bark won't develop until the tree is older, over 10 years for sure, probably needs to be 20 years old to have good bark.

I have 'Purple Ghost' and 'Mikazuki' both as grafted trees, and they definitely have large leaves, once I have them on their own roots, I will most likely need to plan on trees over 24 inches tall to get good proportions. They seem to be good growers and tolerant of late frosts.

Ukigumo is a heavily variegated somewhat dwarf variety. It is surviving for me in pot culture, but it definitely is more delicate than most. It will be another year or two for my 2 year old at purchase graft to be robust enough to even begin air layering.

Evergreen Gardenworks does offer cuttings of a dozen Japanese maple cultivars on their own roots. Worth checking out.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Arakawa is a vigorous, easy grower, and can be used for almost any size or style of bonsai, it has a lot of good cultural traits. The other wart bark types are more quirky. Nishiki Gawa is notorious for being a touchy grower, and it was true to its reputation in my care, perished in my late spring freeze.

How's the Nishiki Gawa "touchy"? What does that mean? I've had one in the ground for a 2-3 years now. No significant problems. I'll disclose that it's had one or two larger roots pruned and 4 airlayer attempts off of it. Other than that I've been letting it grow.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Thanks for the reply Leo! lots of great info, thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[MACH5]

I'm a huge fan of smaller maples in general and, when I lived in MA, started collecting them At one point, I had probably 25 A. palmatum cultivars planted in my yard, plus several closely related maple species including snake barks, tridents, full moon, etc..

Here's the thing: the characteristics that make these cultivars desirable in the landscape- small size and slow growth habit, variegated or extremely dissected foliage, exfoliating, striped bark, etc.- might disqualify them as being good bonsai subjects. Striped bark or brightly colored foliage may visually overwhelm a bonsai. Also, generally speaking, slow growing "dwarf" trees, trees with variegated foliage or highly dissected leaves are not that vigorous. Put them in a pot and subject them to bonsai culture and they can become down right fragile, not to mention that they're all typically grafted and may not do well on their own roots. Anyway, I think these are a few of the main reasons why more maple cultivars aren't seen as bonsai.

Exactly! My belief as well is that some of the more exotic varieties of A. Palmatum are simply too showy for good bonsai. The leaf patterns and colors become the focal point rather than the overall image of a deciduous tree in miniature. The other issue is how slow and/or touchy some can be making the long road to bonsai even longer and frustrating.

The wonderful thing about standard A. Palmatums is that they have almost predictable growth habits. They are very vigorous trees that happily work along with you rather than fighting its way to being a bonsai.

I love Japanese maples in all of their wonderful variety of shapes and colors. However, I ask myself, do I want a bonsai collection or a collection of rare plants? Some maples are best left for the garden

Two i'm after, chishio and deshojo, very difficult to find stock.

NY have you checked House of Bonsai in LA? I am often there and I know they have LOTS of deshojo maples. Great place but my main issue is that most of the trees have poor nebaris. You can always of course air layer them.