Vine Maple Forest

I'm a big fan of the Vine Maple, one of the most beautiful trees in the forest around here. Glad to see you working with them, I think they deserve more attention than they get. I dig them up plenty, some good size stock, too, 2"-3" trunks if there's any interest.
 
@Arcto have you seen how vine maples grow in the wild in the Willamette Valley? That might provide helpful inspiration! From what I have seen, in snow regions they will commonly produce low, multi-trunk growth and in more temperate regions they will grow in an upright broom form.

I like what you've got going and I wish you well. This past winter I lost one of my two vine maples from verticillium wilt. I want to grow more :)
 
View attachment 101847 Just a spring update. A little wire and cleanup, not much else. Starting some cuttings to consider adding if they strike.

Pretty nice, you may want to let a couple grow unchecked this year to get some different girths and height. Right now they are all kinda the same.
 
@RKatzin , if you have 2-3" stuff available I'm sure you'll get lots of interest. I haven't seen much that size in the bonsai trade. @parhamr, yes, used to live in the valley. You understand how Vine Maple gets its name when you try to force your way thru a dense understory of it. @Giga, my plans for this year were interrupted by a late June freeze that burned some leaves and slammed the new VM cuttings I was developing.image.jpgI pruned out the worst of the burned leaves and getting some regrowth further inside the trees. image.jpg More cuttings started.
 
Little question, in keeping with this topic. How close together would you want to plant forest trees? Surely theres a limit due to the roots not having enough space.
 
Little question, in keeping with this topic. How close together would you want to plant forest trees? Surely theres a limit due to the roots not having enough space.
Little question, no little answer. That comes into the artistry of each and every forest, even "yours". Certain forests by design have some bases of treetrunks touching (thus the roots were crowded to each other). Depends on how many trees, how large the trees, the kind of trees, the shape of the trees, etc., etc. Strive for "natures" positioning which tends to be random (no rows, no equal spacing, not the same height, shaped according to conditions where growing, etc., esthetics tends to say odd numbered amounts, just simply do what nature does) but then the trees in nature grow according to their environment. If close together and crowded there will be some stunted growth, branches reaching out beyond/around others, without crowding trees will tend to be fairly similar on both sides, (following the unimpeeded form of that species of tree) etc., etc. To say nothing of what size the base/pot should it be? "You" are the artist, how many trees will "you" use, and what..., and...? Hopefully this is vaguely specific enough to be of help. May help to google gobs and gobs of bonsai forest images (keeping "gobs" out of the search). Late last fall, I assisted ( I drove) a friend in harvesting some wild oaks nearby but on the way back I noticed (while also keeping my eyes on the road) many mature trees in their natural settings. It was dusk and the trees were backlit by the setting sun, which lit them up in dark contrast and very vividly. At the time I wished I had a camera to record exactly what I was seeing and the obvious ways certain branches grew according to their position, or confinement, or lack of confinment on each tree. Oh, and do post pics of the forest "you" decide on because there's some bnutters that will critique the crap out of it for you.
 
Glad to see other threads on VM. The leaves can be reduced over time (photo of ruler shows one of the larger leaves) and an interesting condition that I've observed with the two I have, is that when given full sun they change (over the last two weeks here) to a almost rust orange colour, but if left in dappled shade they stay a nice green...even when one leaf covers part of the leaf below one can see the difference that full sun makes.

Cheers G.image.jpegimage.jpeg
 
Little question, no little answer. That comes into the artistry of each and every forest, even "yours". Certain forests by design have some bases of treetrunks touching (thus the roots were crowded to each other). Depends on how many trees, how large the trees, the kind of trees, the shape of the trees, etc., etc. Strive for "natures" positioning which tends to be random (no rows, no equal spacing, not the same height, shaped according to conditions where growing, etc., esthetics tends to say odd numbered amounts, just simply do what nature does) but then the trees in nature grow according to their environment. If close together and crowded there will be some stunted growth, branches reaching out beyond/around others, without crowding trees will tend to be fairly similar on both sides, (following the unimpeeded form of that species of tree) etc., etc. To say nothing of what size the base/pot should it be? "You" are the artist, how many trees will "you" use, and what..., and...? Hopefully this is vaguely specific enough to be of help. May help to google gobs and gobs of bonsai forest images (keeping "gobs" out of the search). Late last fall, I assisted ( I drove) a friend in harvesting some wild oaks nearby but on the way back I noticed (while also keeping my eyes on the road) many mature trees in their natural settings. It was dusk and the trees were backlit by the setting sun, which lit them up in dark contrast and very vividly. At the time I wished I had a camera to record exactly what I was seeing and the obvious ways certain branches grew according to their position, or confinement, or lack of confinment on each tree. Oh, and do post pics of the forest "you" decide on because there's some bnutters that will critique the crap out of it for you.

Thanks for the info. I do not have a forest set of trees yet. I'm still very much a beginner, learning to take care of the ones I do have but maybe in about 3-4 years I will. I will certainly get a forest, I'd prefer a set of long thin, taller trees, as opposed to the thicker. Obviously, usually in bonsai the thicker trunk the better in my opinion but for a forest I think I'd prefer tall and thin :).

Glad to see other threads on VM. The leaves can be reduced over time (photo of ruler shows one of the larger leaves) and an interesting condition that I've observed with the two I have, is that when given full sun they change (over the last two weeks here) to a almost rust orange colour, but if left in dappled shade they stay a nice green...even when one leaf covers part of the leaf below one can see the difference that full sun makes.

Cheers G.View attachment 110360View attachment 110361

Very cool chemical reaction going on there :). Your sun intensity must be just tipping the leaf colouring (chloroform colours the leaves? ) just over and under its limit in order to change and stay the same.
 
Good info jomawa and Ghues, thanks. I've noticed the color variation in VM too. Does seem site exposure dependent. A lot in open roadside areas look like they're in September before it is even July. Mine were in a partially shaded spot under some Hemlock on the bench. Pretty green under the frost burn and too elongated. I've moved them to a more open spot.
 
I will certainly get a forest, I'd prefer a set of long thin, taller trees, as opposed to the thicker. Obviously, usually in bonsai the thicker trunk the better in my opinion but for a forest I think I'd prefer tall and thin :).
Sounds like you have a good start on "your" forest artistry. We all want pictures (but I won't be holding my breath till then).
 
@parhamr @Arcto @ghues Any of you have any vine maple stock you'd like to get rid of (sell)? I got a few cheap ones 2 years ago and with the right protection, in summer, they do really well here. I'd like to get a more interesting piece of stock now.
 
Zach,
The cost of shipping and hassle (getting any of mine across the border) would far out way the value of the trees.
 
@zachkent29, I'm afraid I don't have any extra Vine Maple right now, sorry. I'll second what parhamr said about Forest Farm. A good source for many unusual species including Vine Maple.
 
So a consensus maybe that the planting is incomplete? There needs to be larger and smaller material added beyond what is there as well as more haphazard spacing?

Letting some grow larger would help as all are same height. This should help get slightly bigger trunks also. Idea of leaning all outward from center with one larger "upright" center tree is good idea as well but not necessarily best idea. See Bonsai Techniques II for different styles of group planting;).
 
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"Oh, and do post pics of the forest "you" decide on because there's some bnutters that will critique the crap out of it for you."

Best possible reason NOT to post:rolleyes:!
 
Vine Maple, Vine being the operative word here, and being a naturalist myself, you must work that vineiness into the composition. Lots of horizontal movement in the structure of the Vine Maple, especially in areas of snow, more outward than up. Really difficult trees to depict in their natural form, but that is what I would like to see.
 
Just a quick update. For the time being, I elected not to break up the planting as I like the overall movement to the right of the forest. Last fall I collected some seed and planted 9 directly in the pot. The rest were cold stratified and planted in flats this spring. Vine Maple has given me the poorest germination rate of any Maple I've planted so far. Only 2 of 9 germinated here. The flats were as bad. The 2 in here are struggling with the deep shade and competition. But as humans fumble around, nature takes over. I cut the forest back hard earlier. Most trees rebounded strongly. One is just pushing growth way late. 2 have died back hard. Looking at the 2 dead trunks, I decided I had nothing to lose by chopping them back almost to soil level. If they push some base growth then I have more options. Note the 2 severed trunks and sealed bases on the back side of the forest here. IMG_1596.JPG
The front side after the deed was done. A little more irregular and how convenient that 2 died! I still have an odd number of survivors.IMG_1598.JPG
 
I am posting these pictures of my 4 year old Japanese Maple Landscape to illustrate how close some of the trees are to each other and a Natural Progression of the Landscape over 4 years.
The first 2 pictures are an 18"W pot, then transferred to a 25" pot in year 3...it is still a Work in Progress...
Many things go to create a Landscape resembling a Real Life scene, a fallen tree or log, some rocks, varied ground cover, varying height of forest floor, some human figures, etc, etc
Various heights and diameter of trees add to the total look...

Special note:::: I started with 2 or 3 trees and kept adding trees as I went along, trimming root balls to fit the scene and proximity to other trees.

Always open to comment, critique, etc...


002.JPG 005.JPG Penjing Maple 2017 002.JPG Penjing Maple 2017 003.JPG Garage Bonsai 004.JPG
 
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