What Ume seeds do I need to recreate this?

[Mr. Monday]

We’ll, it’s good that you know what you like and why. To get a twin trunk, you need two trunks, or to combine two teees, or graft. If you’re starting from seed, cut down the first shoot down to 2 nodes, and let them both grow to form 2 trunks, wire the trunks for movement (carefully, they’re brittle) in year one, and in year two, start to let them grow wild.

You can get a large ume trunk in 10-12 years, while doing your 100s of hours of research to stay a step ahead. This one is 10 years old from seed and is about 3” in diameter and chopped down to 10” tall. I’ve done multiple chops which have slowed down the trunk thickening, but has resulted in a lot of trunk movement and taper. As you know, having an interesting trunk will be better than simply a big one.
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I'm planning to start one from a cutting rather than seed. Would I graft the cuttings?

As pointed out by Brian, the tree you've fallen in love with is in decline. It has weak growth and sparse flowers at the ends of long branches. Those are signs the tree is weakening and needs some rest and recuperation IN THE GROUND. Some trees need that after a long period in a container. The trees Brian posted are of trees that are of better quality and in better condition than the one you like. They would be better investments...just sayin'.

Joining a club is great, but don't you think that joining the club BEFORE you make such an investment might be a better idea? Clubs are a knowledgeable resource. Some members might even know where to find such stratospheric material (an Ume of the quality you're looking at is going to be north of $2,000 if you can locate it--importing one from Japan is probably the best way to get one of that quality. If you want to go that route, there are companies that can help you).

FWI, expect some eyerolls from people if you roll up to a club with a newly-purchased $2,000-$5,000 tree for them to help you with. They have definitely seen it before and have seen where it leads...

It's a bit delusional thinking that "thousands of hours" of reading books is the same as actually doing bonsai. FWI, more than a few bonsaiists are, or have been, aquarium enthusiasts. I'm one of those --had reef tanks for years and gave them up for bonsai. Let me say that bonsai isn't an aquarium... It tends to be a lot less technical and a lot more intuitive, artistically and horticulturally.

Wow it would be that cheap? I was thinking north of $10k based on what I've seen. I guess I'm into unhealthy trees then. I wasn't planning to purchase a mature tree, at first I was thinking seeds, now I'm thinking cuttings. I'm just trying to figure out the twin trunk and basic care before I purchase a cutting. But I will join BSSF asap thanks for looking out.

 

[shinmai]

" It tends to be a lot less technical and a lot more intuitive, artistically and horticulturally" puts it very well, indeed. I've also noted that once an aquarium environment is created, my relationship with the creatures in it is observational, while the relationship with the bonsai tree is continually interactive.
To put it another way, you can't prune and wire a fish and see what it will look like in a year or two.

 

[rockm]

I'm planning to start one from a cutting rather than seed. Would I graft the cuttings?

Wow it would be that cheap? I was thinking north of $10k based on what I've seen. I guess I'm into unhealthy trees then. I wasn't planning to purchase a mature tree, at first I was thinking seeds, now I'm thinking cuttings. I'm just trying to figure out the twin trunk and basic care before I purchase a cutting. But I will join BSSF asap thanks for looking out.

"I did some searching around and found some trees on ebay that sold between $600-$2000, which is fine, that is well within budget and shaves years off the time to achieve the desired result"

OK...Guess I was a little confused...

 

[Mr. Monday]

" It tends to be a lot less technical and a lot more intuitive, artistically and horticulturally" puts it very well, indeed. I've also noted that once an aquarium environment is created, my relationship with the creatures in it is observational, while the relationship with the bonsai tree is continually interactive.
To put it another way, you can't prune and wire a fish and see what it will look like in a year or two.

My aquariums don't have many fish, just damsels and cardinal tetra, they are all about the corals and plants. Aquascaping is very artistic and my planted aquariums require constant pruning. It's far from observational, my weekly upkeep is quite intensive, keeping SPS corals thriving is no small task. I also prune my corals by cutting coral frags and selling/trading them, not only to make money and trade for other corals, but also to keep the tank balanced, some corals will thrive at the expense of others if you don't keep them in check.

"I did some searching around and found some trees on ebay that sold between $600-$2000, which is fine, that is well within budget and shaves years off the time to achieve the desired result"

OK...Guess I was a little confused...

I was responding to the guy that said "Why start with seed when you can buy a more established tree?" As you can see in my OP I was planning to start with a seed but I am also open to suggestion.

 

[shinmai]

My aquariums don't have many fish, just damsels and cardinal tetra, they are all about the corals and plants. Aquascaping is very artistic and my planted aquariums require constant pruning. It is far from observational, my weekly upkeep is quite intensive, keeping SPS corals thriving is no small task. I also prune my corals by cutting coral frags and selling them, not only to make money but to keep the tank balanced, some corals will thrive at the expense of others if you don't keep them in check.

I was responding to the guy that said "Why start with seed when you can buy a more established tree?" As you can see in my OP I was planning to start with a seed but I am also open to suggestion.

Point taken. I had, in fact, acknowledged your achievement in maintaining corals, and yes, aquascaping is artistic, and yes, especially if you have a lot of vegetation. The thing about pruning and wiring a fish was intended to be amusing. No denying, an aquarium environment takes constant work. What I was trying to get at is the idea that outside of that work, I personally got a lot of enjoyment of just watching the activity in the successful environment I had built. The satisfaction I find in bonsai comes, for me at least, much more from the hands-on interaction with the tree. I think we're basically in the same church, just different pews, as they say.

 

[Saddler]

Something else to think about, you probably don’t get just one or two trees because that inevitably leads to loving them to death. It’s a real thing. Getting as many as is feasible will help keep you occupied with having a lot more to do then just one thing a year per tree plus keeping it alive. Trees are sloooooow to grow. I always have a couple dozen at a friends that I don’t see more then three times a year because they need to grow a branch out or thicken or recover or whatever. 70 trees and I’m still struggling with some to not love them to death.

Get some cheap trees to practice wiring on, I lost a few branches from not understanding how far I could bend a branch. Or made ugly branches because I didn’t see the wiring cutting in on a section of branch I wasn’t looking for the wiring biting in.
Get some cheap trees to learn what's too late in the season and what’s too early to root prune.
Which trees do well in your micro climate and which struggle is something that takes time to learn.

Just something to think about.

 

[Mr. Monday]

Something else to think about, you probably don’t get just one or two trees because that inevitably leads to loving them to death. It’s a real thing. Getting as many as is feasible will help keep you occupied with having a lot more to do then just one thing a year per tree plus keeping it alive. Trees are sloooooow to grow. I always have a couple dozen at a friends that I don’t see more then three times a year because they need to grow a branch out or thicken or recover or whatever. 70 trees and I’m still struggling with some to not love them to death.

Get some cheap trees to practice wiring on, I lost a few branches from not understanding how far I could bend a branch. Or made ugly branches because I didn’t see the wiring cutting in on a section of branch I wasn’t looking for the wiring biting in.
Get some cheap trees to learn what's too late in the season and what’s too early to root prune.
Which trees do well in your micro climate and which struggle is something that takes time to learn.

Just something to think about.

Great advice, thank you.

 

[shinmai]

I think it's pretty safe to say that more trees have died from too much attention than from too little.
To Saddler's point, I presently have about fifty pots on my front porch, ranging from weird stuff like a ninebark to a magnolia stellata with leaves the size of a bloodhound's ears, including a crapload of garden center rhododendrons and azaleas. Tucked in among them are two, truly beautiful satsuki trees, which I have not touched since I got them in May save for gently repotting. The other 48 are basically cannon fodder, who can jump in front of the bullet if I'm on my way to doing something to those two that I'm not ready and in the right frame of mind to do.
By the way, that frame of mind thing: I'm a pretty accomplished amateur cook, and I learned a long time ago that if I try to make food when I'm angry or stressed out, it will show up in the finished dish, and I'm better off not even attempting. [That's why God gave us delivery Chinese and pizza.] I'm finding the same to be true of bonsai--other than necessary watering, it's far better to walk away and come back later, than to try to prune or wire or whatever when your head is not in the right place. As long as the tree stays alive, there's always another day to do the other stuff.