What's it like to attend an Intensive program?

Dario,

The bench fee is $10 per month per tree. I pay him when I'm there. So, next October, I'll owe him for June, July, August, September, and October. 5 months. $250.

One of the trees is a shohin. I'll probably be bringing it back home with me after the potting class in January. It needs a smaller pot. So I'll be down to 4.

And I may bring the tree that is my avatar home with me. Probably have to ship it. I'm hoping to show it at the BIB show in January, then show it again here at the Atlanta Bonsai Society show in May. And then in Owen's show in Nashville, if he'll let me.

After that, I need to graft on a new interior sub-branch. One branch has too long of an internode. It's a minor detail that I want to fix. I'll graft it next fall.
 
I know you're being facetious, but...



.

Smoke, I'll answer some of your idiotic questions first.

Spoken like true SOB's! "Thats why BSG gets 4 posts a day!

These questions may seem idiotic and facetious to you two, but there are many here that do not have the fortitude to ask the questions, but really wish to know why its worth it when one can only afford to buy trees from Home Depot or a garden center.

I asked these questions to ground this thread for "everyone" and not just those with the means to aquire an education from a Professional.

Those that can afford this kind of education are probably already doing it.
 
I would prefer that folks purchased their trees from their local bonsai shop, rather than Home Depot. Even though I own stock in Home Depot!

Seriously, I think your local shopkeeper needs your business to stay in business.

Most shops sell raw material. Along with pots, tools, pre-bonsai, finished bonsai, soil, etc. These small businesses need local support. HomeDepot does not need to sell to the bonsai market. Although, surprisingly, some HomeDepot sell mallsai from Brussel's!

So Smoke, I think your whole premise is flawed.

Look... I've said over and over why I give advice on this forum. I KNOW there are a lot of people who cannot attend Boon's or Ryan's intensive programs for financial reasons. That's why I post with advice. I merely cite that I learned it at Boons so that they may feel assured I'm not just making it up. Kinda like how when you go to the Doctor's office, his walls are plastered with all his diplomas!

I'm not trying to sell their programs. I'm trying to share the knowledge!

Stop being a troll!

By the way, folks, Smoke is trying to goad me by calling me a SOB. That means "Student of Boon". You're right Smoke. I'm a SOB.
 
Look... I've said over and over why I give advice on this forum. I KNOW there are a lot of people who cannot attend Boon's or Ryan's intensive programs for financial reasons. That's why I post with advice. I merely cite that I learned it at Boons so that they may feel assured I'm not just making it up. Kinda like how when you go to the Doctor's office, his walls are plastered with all his diplomas!

I'm not trying to sell their programs. I'm trying to share the knowledge!

yes, but the Doctor does not tell the doctor down the street that they don't know what they are doing or offer his advice on how he may be a better doctor.
 
I would prefer that folks purchased their trees from their local bonsai shop, rather than Home Depot. Even though I own stock in Home Depot!

Seriously, I think your local shopkeeper needs your business to stay in business.


So Smoke, I think your whole premise is flawed.

.

How many bonsai shops in Alabama, Georgia, Montana, Kansas, Nevada, New Mexico, etc. etc.

What Vance is doing is showing people how to do bonsai on a somewhat limited budget and with resources not commonly available to everyone. I started a blog and included how I take material thru a process from the first chop right on thru to building branches, building twigs, making stands and showing trees on a professional level. I felt that was a nich that was missing from the forums on a detailed level. There are many professional blogs out there. Every master seems to have one. Even Peter Teas blog has material on it that the average bonsai person will never work on in their lifetime. I do get very tired reading about candle pruning and needle plucking on branches in blogs that have been there for twenty years.

I look at all the blogs and read them and so far I have not read anything I am not doing or havn't done for many years. What is missing is the nuts and bolts blogs out there that take average material and try to improve it to a place that it can be shown with upper level trees and not look so out of place.

Troll! You got to be kidding. Rather than dazzle the forum with an argument about the superior merits of copper over aluminum, which a first year newbie probably already understands and frankly looks kinda foolish arguing over, and show us some real bonsai work.

How about posting up some pine stock with no branches on it and take us thru a couple years and show us how to make branches. Now that would be sharing the knowledge. How do you get a twelve inch long branch to back bud and create a branch only 3 inches long from that twelve inch branch? Now that is some pictures I would like to see. How do you get a 5 gallon black pine into a shohin pot only 6 inches long?

There have been many people here that contribute to this forum and actually show "how to do it". I have done it many times. I have professed the virtues of humates, people still argue, I have professed the virtues of akadama, people still argue. I have taken the stand that I will not talk of them anymore because people are going to do what they want to do, be it aluminum wire or copper wire.

When I talk about what it is I am doing I will show what it is I am doing like these small pines that had some sacrifice limbs cut off today. These trees will be on my blog soon and they will be shown all the way thru the process of making branches from what is left to styling the tree, fitting it into a pot and finally showing it on stands I make.

Thats what this troll does!
 

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Good for you, Smoke. I find it hard to post pictures on this site. I take pictures with my iphone, but I haven't been able to upload them directly into posts. Maybe I'm just too stupid, or lazy to figure out how. I can do it on BSG, so I post pictures over there.

And indeed, I have posted pictures of my JBP I purchased from Telperion Farms. How it's been approach grafted, how I'm slowly removing a large sacrifice branch. On BSG, I think the thread title is something like "My latest victim, er, Project" or something like that.

Brian Van Fleet has an excellent "book" on how to take a nursery can JBP from raw stock to a refined tree. I have never chronicled my bonsai that well, I don't have the photography skills that he has, so I often refer people to go look at that. It's far better than anything I could ever produce. It's at www.nebaribonsai.com. That's Brian's blog.

I don't know about all those other states. There are a couple bonsai shops in Georgia. In Clermont, GA there is one: Plant City Bonsai. I teach classes there, three times a year, and occasional other classes if the owner gets a request for one. They have other classes for specialized stuff like forest making. Owen Reich comes in to teach workshops.

I do mine right after I return from the Boon Intensives. To try to recreate the experience I just had as best I can in one day. Obviously, we don't have trees as nice as Boon's to work on, but I do the best I can. This way, I show people, hands on, what to do. Some things are hard to do over the Internet.

My classes are growing in popularity. I started with maybe 8 people, and now it's expanded to where we have to schedule two days for each one. (more people) One guy came all the way from Mississippi to come to my repotting class!

Really, I'm doing what I can do to share the knowledge as best I can. I'm sure you do, too.
 
I don't know about all those other states. There are a couple bonsai shops in Georgia. In Clermont, GA there is one: Plant City Bonsai.

No real bonsai shops/nurseries in AZ.

The only nurseries within 2 hours specialize in 36"+ box trees.

I'm stuck with Home Depot. And Lowes. Don't forget Lowes.

I guess I might as well give up and burn all of my trees, since they're garbage anyways.
 
... I have professed the virtues of humates, people still argue, I have professed the virtues of akadama, people still argue. I have taken the stand that I will not talk of them anymore because people are going to do what they want to do, be it aluminum wire or copper wire.
You also started a thread titled "Kiss fertilizing as you know it goodbye" after using a siphon injector for, what was it, 1 month? Telling everyone how you were already seeing improvements in your plants by fertilizing every time you watered. Then 3 months later you're disconnecting it because it "builds very long coarse growth and should be reserved for ground growing or growing out in large containers where trunk building is needed." Like that couldn't have been predicted. And you wonder why people might be skeptical and argumentative...

Adair, I'd like to hear more about the intensives if you have more to say. I doubt I'll ever participate, but I appreciate the range of experiences that are posted here.
 
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timetravel,

They're not garbage if you enjoy working on them!

A quick google search found that there are bonsai societies in Tuscon, Phoenix, and Scottsdale. The members of clubs like these often swap trees. That's a good source.

Arizona is also not far (relatively speaking since I live in Georgia) from California. Lots of bonsai resources in California.
 
I'm stuck with Home Depot. And Lowes. Don't forget Lowes.

I guess I might as well give up and burn all of my trees, since they're garbage anyways.

They are not garbage, you can do something with them...it will just take longer and more work. :)

I have lots of "low potential" trees and I enjoy them a lot. For me, they actually make my "creative juices flow" (what little I have). :D
 
You also started a thread titled "Kiss fertilizing as you know it goodbye" after using a siphon injector for, what was it, 1 month? Telling everyone how you were already seeing improvements in your plants by fertilizing every time you watered. Then 3 months later you're disconnecting it because it "builds very long coarse growth and should be reserved for ground growing or growing out in large containers where trunk building is needed." Like that couldn't have been predicted. And you wonder why people might be skeptical and argumentative...

LOL. I still have mine connected (but not full time) and still loving it.
 
Adair, I'd like to hear more about the intensives if you have more to say. I doubt I'll ever participate, but I appreciate the range of experiences that are posted here.

I agree. Great thread. :)
 
LOL. I still have mine connected (but not full time) and still loving it.
You're probably using a fertilizer rate that is appropriate for the stage of development and types of trees you have. It's not the siphon injector or continuous fertilization that is the issue, I also like the idea and am experimenting with it. But I didn't come on here after 1 month and proclaim to have solved the great fertilizer dilemma (and neither did you).
 
You're probably using a fertilizer rate that is appropriate for the stage of development and types of trees you have. It's not the siphon injector or continuous fertilization that is the issue,...

I agree. As with anything, it all boils down to understanding what it will do (and how) and adjust as needed.
 
I've mentioned to Adair in a pm that I've been keeping out of these conflicts as it's not my style to argue with people. But I feel I must say something...I'm studying junipers w. Ryan. I'm finishing my first yr in Oct. I, like Adair, have mentioned a topic or two in passing that I picked up from Ryan that was immediately dismissed or ignored. Or, like Smoke, I've been extremely impressed how vigorous and healthy my trees have been this yr the first yr. I switched to akadama. (not one single disease this yr!) It's routinely dismissed. Ryan also pressed the importance of humates, also dismissed here. I haven't even brought the topic up b/c I'm not going to argue over this...it's a hobby for me though I take it seriously.

I understand not all can afford this, but Adair deserves credit for at least trying to share what he's learned. He's been MUCH more sharing than I would/could ever be. But I don't see the need for so much 'aggression' that I've read here to any learned concept from a student of Boon. Simply, if you don't find worth, than ignore. I'm pretty sure it's these kind of interactions here that has driven the professional community away.

Just my .02 cents.
Chris
 
Back on topic:

Day Two of the fall Intensive:

The second day starts off the same as the first with a video and instruction with handouts. If you express an interest in a particular topic, Boon will find articles in Kinsai or Bonsai Today, etc and use those. I had expressed an interest in zelkova, so Boon found some material about developing broom style zelkova and shared it with the class. Boon has one or two zelkova. He showed me a magazine article how someone in Japan developed one over the years. At one point he was offered $1 million for it, and he turned them down!

The afternoon, I started wiring. The more experienced participants (who already knew how to unwire and pull needles) had started wiring the first day. Boon is a stickler on good wiring. I THOUGHT I knew how to wire. Coming in to the Intensives, I probably was better than 90 percent of those who wire their trees. That's not good enough for Boon.

He distributes a handout on wiring every session. I've been to 6 Intensives, I have 6 copies. We go over it in detail. I take notes on what Boon says about the illustrations. I've gone back and looked, and I find different notes. Every time, Boon finds something new to point out about how to wire effectively. Or, at least, every time, I HEAR something new to jot down.

There are two illustrations that we spend a good amount of time talking about: Figure 3 and Figure 15. Every Boon student will know what I'm talking about! LOL!! Figure 3 shows how to wire a fork in a branch. Figure 15 shows how to wire out an entire branch. When we're wiring, and come to a difficult spot, Boon will say, make it look like Figure 15, or "Use Figure 3"... It's "Boon speak".

He gave me a tree that was probably mid way from being raw stock to refined. It still had some sacrifice branches thickening the apex, and other places where it was growing out. Other places, the primary branches, the tree was starting to get ramification. He wanted me to remove and rewire the primary branch.

Unwiring, no problem.

Now for wiring: Boon likes to lay the wire out in a particular way. The coils lay so that two students can have access to the coils and cut off what they need, leaving the coil available for the other student. Kinda had to learn how that process works. We use Jim Gremel's copper. Best wire I have ever used. Boon says it's even softer than the wire he used in Japan.

Boon insists that each wire be properly "anchored". It takes at least 1 1/2 turns to anchor a wire, then the other end is wound. Always wire two branches with one wire. Anchor on one branch 1 1/2 turns, wire the other branch, then go back and finish wiring the first branch. Don't cross wires, you can lay two wires next to each other, the second wire should be more towards the tip of the branch than the first wire. Beginners (like me) are not allowed to "splice". He teaches us how to do it, just not allowed. No "teeter totters" allowed. A teeter tootter is where two branches are wired with insufficient anchor. Think bar branches. If you wire two bar branches together with one wire, then when you move one branch, the branch on the other side will move because the wire moves it. When you're done wiring, Boon will come and test your wiring by adjusting all the branches. If when moving one branch another branch moves, it's "teeter totter", and you'll have to remove all the wire and start over.

I had to rewire one portion 3 times.

I got called a "Bimbo" a couple times! What's a Bimbo? In Japan, a "Bimbo" is a spendthrift. Or someone who wastes money. Copper wire is expensive. So having to rewire the branch 3 times meant I had to remove the wire twice and dump the used wire in the recycling box. Bimbo! Another way to get called a bimbo is to cut too long a piece of wire and have too much extra after it's applied.

Aside: Owen Reich came to town, and gave a workshop at Plant City Bonsai. I was there to "help", but not instruct as it was Owen's workshop. He tasked me with mundane tasks like properly putting screens in pots, and things like that. No problem! But, during the workshop, he also teased me about being a Boonite about wiring. That's ok. He knows Boon is a good wirer. And then I noticed Owen had this little habit: After he wired a branch, and he cut off the excess, he then absent mindedly cut the piece he just cut off into two or three smaller pieces before going on to the next branch to wire.

So, I asked him what's up with that? And he smiled and said that he learned to do that in Japan. If the Master came by and saw there were a lot of 4 to 6 inch pieces of wire, a little too short to be used for anything, he would get mad and accuse Owen of wasting money! So, by cutting them up, it looked like he was using "just the right amount" of wire and not wasting any! LOL!!! Don't want to be a Bimbo!!

Aside over.

On Boon's website, there's student testimonials. One by John Kirby is about wiring, and how he got frustrated trying to wire up to Boon's standards. It's a good read, I fully identify myself with him on that.

We wire at every Intensive. A lot. Boon has a slogan: Bonsai is wiring, and wiring is bonsai.

If you don't want to wire, don't go to a Boon Intensive.

More Later.
 
I've mentioned to Adair in a pm that I've been keeping out of these conflicts as it's not my style to argue with people. But I feel I must say something...I'm studying junipers w. Ryan. I'm finishing my first yr in Oct. I, like Adair, have mentioned a topic or two in passing that I picked up from Ryan that was immediately dismissed or ignored. Or, like Smoke, I've been extremely impressed how vigorous and healthy my trees have been this yr the first yr. I switched to akadama. (not one single disease this yr!) It's routinely dismissed. Ryan also pressed the importance of humates, also dismissed here. I haven't even brought the topic up b/c I'm not going to argue over this...it's a hobby for me though I take it seriously.

I understand not all can afford this, but Adair deserves credit for at least trying to share what he's learned. He's been MUCH more sharing than I would/could ever be. But I don't see the need for so much 'aggression' that I've read here to any learned concept from a student of Boon. Simply, if you don't find worth, than ignore. I'm pretty sure it's these kind of interactions here that has driven the professional community away.

Just my .02 cents.
Chris

How about being a little more specific? I don't think there was aggression, at least on my part, just a disagreement and difference of opinion. I would like to know what you think and at what point do you think this went south?
 
Once again,

Don't throw copper wire out to the scrap folk, get a jeweller to just re-draw it into wire.
We have the equipment and do the above.
Mind you we don't have that much use for wire - Lingnan mostly.

Thanks Adair.
See you folks later.
Good Day
Anthony

* Now if only our J.B.pines would throw out those longer than 1/4 inch candles - ha ha ha.
 
How about being a little more specific? I don't think there was aggression, at least on my part, just a disagreement and difference of opinion. I would like to know what you think and at what point do you think this went south?

How about your statement that went something like, "I'd rather step on a 6 inch nail than do anything that Boon says to do." Sounds pretty aggressive to me. Or maybe it was, "I'd rather step on a 6 inch nail rather than do anything that a Boon student says to do". I can't remember. I'm not going back to check.
 
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