Heavenly bamboo clump questions/help.

[MMJNICE]

So I was cruising around the old north Dayton Nursery and I stopped in my tracks when I saw this Heavenly bamboo and I had to have it. The price was penny's what I thought it was worth so I bought it. It's quite large probably 27" of Foliage and trunks and 37" with the fruit on top but the root base is amazing to me and I always like a good three trunk clump. My question is can I cut back with little to no problems,,,,, hopefully with a new bit of Foliage forming lower down. And two, what is the repotting process for this Weird, little monkey. I know it's not a true bamboo because grass doesn't fruit Berries. I Included a photo with Mini bamboo for scale along with lighter. This one is totally new to me and I don't want to f-this one up because I really like it and feel lucky to find a old Norly looking H-bamboo to be "blessed" pun.. heheheh to enjoy and put into a pot. And for your viewing pleasure here it is.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Heavenly bamboo, genus Nandina is in the Barberry family, related to barberries and Mahonia. Not a bamboo at all.

It responds well to spring and summer pruning. I do NOT recommend Autumn pruning, as this will disrupt winter hardiness.

If you have a frost free cool greenhouse, you may prune. But if your want is to winter it outdoors, do no pruning until spring.

It should be fully winter hardy with pot heeled into the ground in the Dayton Ohio area.

 

[Shibui]

Nandina responds well to pruning. It can bud on bare wood after a chop. I think I have mostly pruned toward the end of winter so it shoots out in spring but I suspect it would respond any time of year. These are tough plants. Very hard to kill and often one of the last plants to disappear from old, neglected gardens in this area but I have no idea how cold hardy they may be.

Don't expect it to stay as 3 trunks forever. Natural habit is to put up new trunks from the roots and the crown each year so I suspect you will be removing suckers to keep the clump small.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I have 2 of these, one a 7 stem clump and the other a big mass of stems. Both were salvaged from the compost pile after my wife tossed them there several weeks earlier. These are ironclad and refused to die even with their bare roots laying exposed for weeks. If you want them to backbud just chop them down and they will oblige usually pushing out new growth at an old node. I was concerned the first time I tried it but now just fearlessly whack away. Mine are 2 varieties. One is like yours with larger leaflets and fewer leaves, whereas the other has much denser foliage with smaller leaflets.

 

[MMJNICE]

Heavenly bamboo, genus Nandina is in the Barberry family, related to barberries and Mahonia. Not a bamboo at all.

It responds well to spring and summer pruning. I do NOT recommend Autumn pruning, as this will disrupt winter hardiness.

If you have a frost free cool greenhouse, you may prune. But if your want is to winter it outdoors, do no pruning until spring.

It should be fully winter hardy with pot heeled into the ground in the Dayton Ohio area.

So I really wanted to know if I prune off one of the tall leaders what will the new growth look like from the cut point? Will it make a sideways branch or something more like a slight Jut out from the trunk the go straight up again? Will it leave a nasty scar? The way the trunks look now it seems like it's never Deviated from the Upward growth since it pops out the ground. Will cutting make two branches or just a lower single or double branch? Will it disrupt the flow of the trunks.. I'm hoping I'm describing the question correctly because I don't want to cut it and make it look worse than it is now. If it was your tree what would you do?

 

[MMJNICE]

Nandina responds well to pruning. It can bud on bare wood after a chop. I think I have mostly pruned toward the end of winter so it shoots out in spring but I suspect it would respond any time of year. These are tough plants. Very hard to kill and often one of the last plants to disappear from old, neglected gardens in this area but I have no idea how cold hardy they may be.

Don't expect it to stay as 3 trunks forever. Natural habit is to put up new trunks from the roots and the crown each year so I suspect you will be removing suckers to keep the clump small.

Im going to just repeat my question that i wrote to another person in this chat to see what both of you say,,, and i don't fell like typing it again..I really wanted to know if I prune off one of the tall leaders what will the new growth look like from the cut point? Will it make a sideways branch or something more like a slight Jut out from the trunk the go straight up again? Will it leave a nasty scar? The way the trunks look now it seems like it's never Deviated from the Upward growth since it pops out the ground. Will cutting make two branches or just a lower single or double branch? Will it disrupt the flow of the trunks.. I'm hoping I'm describing the question correctly because I don't want to cut it and make it look worse than it is now. If it was your tree what would you do? And if you got a picture I'd love to see it.

 

[MMJNICE]

Nandina responds well to pruning. It can bud on bare wood after a chop. I think I have mostly pruned toward the end of winter so it shoots out in spring but I suspect it would respond any time of year. These are tough plants. Very hard to kill and often one of the last plants to disappear from old, neglected gardens in this area but I have no idea how cold hardy they may be.

Don't expect it to stay as 3 trunks forever. Natural habit is to put up new trunks from the roots and the crown each year so I suspect you will be removing suckers to keep the clump small.

I don't mind if it decides to shoot out more trunks, the more the merrier! Odd even I don't care as long as it looks good. It may be interesting to have more of a variety of trunk heights. So how fast do this guys grow a season?

 

[WNC Bonsai]

On mine they just put out a bud which shoots straight up. Depending on how far above the node you cut it just leaves a stub which so far has not healed over. Next spring I intend to trim the cut ends back to just above the new stem to see if it will then roll over but I doubt it. We have tons in the yard that my wife has pruned back and they never have healed over, they just get bushier.

 

[MHBonsai]

They grow straight up as a rule. Buds from a node will curl off the existing trunk and run for the sky. I wouldn’t plan for a lot of horizontal movement.

 

[Shibui]

Will it make a sideways branch or something more like a slight Jut out from the trunk the go straight up again? Will it leave a nasty scar? The way the trunks look now it seems like it's never Deviated from the Upward growth since it pops out the ground. Will cutting make two branches or just a lower single or double branch? Will it disrupt the flow of the trunks.. I'm hoping I'm describing the question correctly because I don't want to cut it and make it look worse than it is now. If it was your tree what would you do? And if you got a picture I'd love to see it.

Normal growth is from the apical tip so stems grow straight.
After pruning new shoots grow from axillary buds where leaves once were. These are obviously on the sides of the stem which means they do grow out slightly but then turn up and grow vertical.
My Nandina usually only make one new shoot after pruning so you probably can't make a bushy tree shape with this species.
My oldest Nandina is long gone which is not surprising as it was not treated very well - kept in a very small pot for years without repotting. This is a cutting from the original plant but shows the type of response to pruning you can expect.

Note the small dead section of the old stem after pruning. Trim those stubs after the new shoot gets going strong.

You may be aware there are lots of newer cultivars of Nandina. Most are smaller versions of the old, original which make it easier to produce bonsai sized plants. Dwarf types also branch more so easier to make a bushy shape.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I occasionally get two new sproouts in a stem after cutting back but not reliably. That is with the larger, coarser variety. On the smaller dwarf variety with the smaller leaflets they pit out numerous branches when cut back. Once we get past this cold spell I’ll post some photos of both varieties.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Ok, here are some photos of the trees I mentioned
This is the coarse one which can grow 6-8’ tall.
Here is where I got 2 shoots from one cut back.
This is the best wound healing I have. It might be better if cut closer to the shoot.
This is the dwarf variety with lots of small leaflets.
Note all the side shoots on this one, they are everywhere.
Here is a closeup of one stem with side shoots.

 

[queenofsheba52]

Very interesting! I love learning about new-to-me plants.

@MMJNICE , tell us a little more about yourself by filling in your profile.

Funny story about "bamboo": someone in our old neighborhood had a stand of what I thought was bamboo; it was very pretty and grew up to 10' tall. I needed to screen an area in our new yard so I carefully transplanted some of their 'bamboo' (with their permission, of course). You probably know already where this is heading: it wasn't bamboo at all but a very invasive weed.. maybe stiltgrass. Yikes! I am still pulling it out of my yard 15 years later. Good thing I can laugh about it. My son calls it "Damboo" LOL

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Very interesting! I love learning about new-to-me plants.

@MMJNICE , tell us a little more about yourself by filling in your profile.

Funny story about "bamboo": someone in our old neighborhood had a stand of what I thought was bamboo; it was very pretty and grew up to 10' tall. I needed to screen an area in our new yard so I carefully transplanted some of their 'bamboo' (with their permission, of course). You probably know already where this is heading: it wasn't bamboo at all but a very invasive weed.. maybe stiltgrass. Yikes! I am still pulling it out of my yard 15 years later. Good thing I can laugh about it. My son calls it "Damboo" LOL

I don't grow Nandina because it is not quite winter hardy at my location. Although., I have not tried again since my climate has warmed a bit. I used to be in zone 4b or 5a, now I'm in 5b, and I am finding zone 6a plants are doing pretty good lately. Have been living in the same house for 40 years.

When I first moved in I planted one of the most cold hardy bamboos I could locate, Phyllostachys aureosulcata, 'yellow groove bamboo'. It proved to be rhizome hardy, but tended to kill to the ground most winters. These days it remains evergreen 3 out of 5 winters. I routinely get 12 foot tall canes if I water and fertilize in spring. 6 to 8 foot tall canes if I leave it alone. Its very pretty if one spends a few hours twice a year "grooming" the grove, cleaning up and removing dead canes, weeds and out of bounds canes. If neglected it can become a extremely unkempt, and overgrow an area if neglected several years in in row.

My favorite source for bamboo is Bamboo Garden Center. They have good quality, healthy divisions available, at reasonable prices. Though for winter hardiness reasons, I suggest ordering in spring. If you are in Michigan, autumn orders should probably be kept in a cool greenhouse for spring planting.

Bamboo Plantation Garden Center

Bamboo Plantation Garden Center! - The best prices on Bamboo plants, bamboo control products and specialty nursery plants.

www.bamboogardencenter.com

There are at least a dozen species of true bamboo that will be reliably rhizome hardy in zone 5, and occasionally evergreen. Phyllostachys nuda is the most cold hardy known of the taller bamboos, but 8 to 12 feet is probably maximum no matter what you do in zone 5, regardless the species. Phyllostachys aureosulcata has some great color forms, look for 'Spectabilis' and 'Aureocaulis' also known as 'Golden Temple'. Avoid black bamboo, Phyllostachys nigra, black bamboo, as it is flowering world wide and the new seedlings have not been grown long enough yet to see if they will have black canes. Size of canes is climate dependent. P. auerosulcata will be 8 feet tall in zone 5, 10 to 15 feet tall in in zone 6 and 25 to 30 feet tall in zone 7. It is fairly "tame" in zone 5, it is wildly invasive in zone 7 and 8.

Bamboo is truly beautiful, very lovely landscape plant. But if you plant bamboo, you need to know how to remove bamboo. Just a fact of life.

A root barrier to confine a planting is absolutely necessary, no matter where you plant bamboo. Do yourself a favor, plan ahead, and then you won't have problems later. Barrier should be at least 24 inches in depth, or deep enough to hit hardpan clay. Barrier should also be thick enough, 3/8 in cross link polyethylene will work, anything thinner will be pierced by the sharp tip of the rhizome. Sidewalks, compacted gravel driveways work well as barriers. In the event of escapes, cut off out of bound canes at ground level and dab on a little herbicide intended to kill grass. Roundup works. Digging rhizomes without using herbicide is back breaking and requires persistence. It can take a could years to eliminate an established planting of bamboo. So only plant it where you are pretty sure you want to leave it long term.

 

[queenofsheba52]

Thanks @Leo in N E Illinois! You know you are Da Bomb, right?

I will look up the Bamboo Garden Center.

 

[MMJNICE]

On mine they just put out a bud which shoots straight up. Depending on how far above the node you cut it just leaves a stub which so far has not healed over. Next spring I intend to trim the cut ends back to just above the new stem to see if it will then roll over but I doubt it. We have tons in the yard that my wife has pruned back and they never have healed over, they just get bushier.

I don't grow Nandina because it is not quite winter hardy at my location. Although., I have not tried again since my climate has warmed a bit. I used to be in zone 4b or 5a, now I'm in 5b, and I am finding zone 6a plants are doing pretty good lately. Have been living in the same house for 40 years.

When I first moved in I planted one of the most cold hardy bamboos I could locate, Phyllostachys aureosulcata, 'yellow groove bamboo'. It proved to be rhizome hardy, but tended to kill to the ground most winters. These days it remains evergreen 3 out of 5 winters. I routinely get 12 foot tall canes if I water and fertilize in spring. 6 to 8 foot tall canes if I leave it alone. Its very pretty if one spends a few hours twice a year "grooming" the grove, cleaning up and removing dead canes, weeds and out of bounds canes. If neglected it can become a extremely unkempt, and overgrow an area if neglected several years in in row.

My favorite source for bamboo is Bamboo Garden Center. They have good quality, healthy divisions available, at reasonable prices. Though for winter hardiness reasons, I suggest ordering in spring. If you are in Michigan, autumn orders should probably be kept in a cool greenhouse for spring planting.

Bamboo Plantation Garden Center

Bamboo Plantation Garden Center! - The best prices on Bamboo plants, bamboo control products and specialty nursery plants.

www.bamboogardencenter.com

There are at least a dozen species of true bamboo that will be reliably rhizome hardy in zone 5, and occasionally evergreen. Phyllostachys nuda is the most cold hardy known of the taller bamboos, but 8 to 12 feet is probably maximum no matter what you do in zone 5, regardless the species. Phyllostachys aureosulcata has some great color forms, look for 'Spectabilis' and 'Aureocaulis' also known as 'Golden Temple'. Avoid black bamboo, Phyllostachys nigra, black bamboo, as it is flowering world wide and the new seedlings have not been grown long enough yet to see if they will have black canes. Size of canes is climate dependent. P. auerosulcata will be 8 feet tall in zone 5, 10 to 15 feet tall in in zone 6 and 25 to 30 feet tall in zone 7. It is fairly "tame" in zone 5, it is wildly invasive in zone 7 and 8.

Bamboo is truly beautiful, very lovely landscape plant. But if you plant bamboo, you need to know how to remove bamboo. Just a fact of life.

A root barrier to confine a planting is absolutely necessary, no matter where you plant bamboo. Do yourself a favor, plan ahead, and then you won't have problems later. Barrier should be at least 24 inches in depth, or deep enough to hit hardpan clay. Barrier should also be thick enough, 3/8 in cross link polyethylene will work, anything thinner will be pierced by the sharp tip of the rhizome. Sidewalks, compacted gravel driveways work well as barriers. In the event of escapes, cut off out of bound canes at ground level and dab on a little herbicide intended to kill grass. Roundup works. Digging rhizomes without using herbicide is back breaking and requires persistence. It can take a could years to eliminate an established planting of bamboo. So only plant it where you are pretty sure you want to leave it long term.

I Just checked out the bamboo link and wow they are pretty cheap but their website is really difficult to navigate on a smartphone. That normally makes me not want to order stuff because finding what I want I'd Extremely difficult. By the way I already have a bit of running black bamboo in a Rather large outdoor planter. I've had the clump in its pot for over two years now and I've only got canes 4" tall and most are not black but a speckled with green and black. When I bought it, it did have one large black cane still alive but it died during the transplant into a new pot.

 

[MMJNICE]

Normal growth is from the apical tip so stems grow straight.
After pruning new shoots grow from axillary buds where leaves once were. These are obviously on the sides of the stem which means they do grow out slightly but then turn up and grow vertical.
My Nandina usually only make one new shoot after pruning so you probably can't make a bushy tree shape with this species.
My oldest Nandina is long gone which is not surprising as it was not treated very well - kept in a very small pot for years without repotting. This is a cutting from the original plant but shows the type of response to pruning you can expect.
View attachment 515819View attachment 515820View attachment 515821
Note the small dead section of the old stem after pruning. Trim those stubs after the new shoot gets going strong.

You may be aware there are lots of newer cultivars of Nandina. Most are smaller versions of the old, original which make it easier to produce bonsai sized plants. Dwarf types also branch more so easier to make a bushy shape.

Quite a setup you got going on there in the background! And what you showed me was kinda what I was expecting if I decided to reduce the extra long runners in my clump. They do seem to heal over pretty good in the two Examples in the pictures. So how do you take your cuttings? Since I'm probably going to take of up to half of the length of my little clump what to you find works best? I noticed on another post on this thread he had his nana in what looked like rock chips.

 

[Michael P]

I Just checked out the bamboo link and wow they are pretty cheap but their website is really difficult to navigate on a smartphone. That normally makes me not want to order stuff because finding what I want I'd Extremely difficult. By the way I already have a bit of running black bamboo in a Rather large outdoor planter. I've had the clump in its pot for over two years now and I've only got canes 4" tall and most are not black but a speckled with green and black. When I bought it, it did have one large black cane still alive but it died during the transplant into a new pot.

Black bamboo culms usually take 2 to 3 years to turn completely black.

 

[MMJNICE]

Ok, here are some photos of the trees I mentioned
View attachment 515932 This is the coarse one which can grow 6-8’ tall.
View attachment 515933 Here is where I got 2 shoots from one cut back.
View attachment 515934 This is the best wound healing I have. It might be better if cut closer to the shoot.
View attachment 515935 This is the dwarf variety with lots of small leaflets.
View attachment 515936 Note all the side shoots on this one, they are everywhere.
View attachment 515937 Here is a closeup of one stem with side shoots.

So the cuts pretty much do what I was expecting which is jut out from the cut point and continue going up. I'm starting to understand how to go about pruning them thanks so much for the information. I really like the little Fern and the mondo grass on the smaller clump pot. Definitely gives me a few ideas about where to take my little three/4 trunk planting. The bushy clump is that a different Variety they the planting with the fern and grass? I wasn't expecting to see one with such a bushy base but considering what a lot of nanas look like in the ground it shouldn't have surprised me. At this point I have just about every type Material people use for bonsai and a few that nobody really uses as well. I gotta start a little notebook with all my Observances about the stuff I've been growing so I don't forget what I've learned every year and have to relearn it all over again. Do you think a real bamboo, like a Miniature bamboo variety could Coexist in the same pot together? I have a super mini clump of real bamboo that I think may look good together here's a picture. To my question anyone can answer if you have Insight

 

[Shibui]

Different types will co-exist in the same pot but there can be some difficulty with different growth rates. As each one spreads you will need to repot to separate them again. I guess if you don't care that the different types merge there should be no problem.