Last (ever?) Mirai Tree Sale

[Nybonsai12]

Grandpa Sisson...

Anybody from the region ever heard of him?

 

[Guy Smiley]

Ponderosa Final bid $3,100.00
(Mirai's) Listed market value: $14,200

I am surprised that Ryan’s Ponderosa #1 only went up to $3,100. I wonder if there was a reserve or if it actually sold for this amount.

 

[shohin_branches]

But was it developed in the PNW?

I don’t vouch for any historical claims. Got a problem tell Mirai.

Fwiw doesn’t really make much difference as apparently this tree was developed by a person with a storied bonsai history in the region. Thats the value. If you want to dispute that again tell Mirai

People are allowed to discuss bonsai stuff on a bonsai stuff forum.

 

[rockm]

People are allowed to discuss bonsai stuff on a bonsai stuff forum.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I have a pine collected from upstate NY. It was developed by Grandpa Marbles for many years and is believed to have lineage to the first ever pine tree and travelled the underground railroad with Harriet Tubman.

Source: Trust me bro.

 

[Maiden69]

I searched for the live stream where Ryan worked on the sango kaku, the tree is from the "original sango-kaku genetic", the difference he says is that the sango-kaku now that are sold at the nurseries the trunk is actually more blood red than coral color. He expands to say that it is because of the industry hybridization of the species in order to get a deeper coral color on the bark. The trees where cultivated by Ira's grandfather as a clump, from a collection dated around the WWII era.

For those that have Mirai access, here is the link. Explanation is on the first 3 minutes of the video.

Academy | Bonsai Mirai Live

Bonsai Mirai presents online live video streams of Bonsai professional Ryan Neil from the premier full-service American bonsai nursery and school located just outside of Portland, Oregon.

live.bonsaimirai.com

 

[Wood]

the tree is from the "original sango-kaku genetic",

If he really knew that, why did he specifically say "...is hypothesized by myself..." in the auction marketing video?

Not trying to criticize/attack you specifically -- I do appreciate the background from his livestream.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- "sango kaku" is not a specific genetic, right? It's just a descriptor of the bark color of new branches?

 

[Maiden69]

@Wood, IDK, transcribed as he was speaking and have not watched the auction video.

Found this description here

Acer palmatum ‘Sango kaku’ is an old cultivar dating back to the 1800s, though its exact origin is unknown. The name ‘Sango kaku’ means “coral tower”. Sango translates to coral while kaku translates to tower. This is a fitting name given the shape of this cultivar as well as the coral red color of the bark. Used to be known as ‘Senkaki’ and it is synonomous with ‘Ebi-no-hige’. ‘Sango kaku’ is also sometimes known as ‘Cinnabarinum’ or Cinnabar wood maple. ‘Sango kaku’ has also been mistakenly referred to as ‘Corallinum’, which is a completely different variety. ‘Corallinum’ is named for its coral red spring foliage rather than anything to do with its bark. ‘Sango kaku’ is probably referred to more frequently as the coral bark maple than by its actual name, but no matter what you call it, Sango kaku is a must have for a complete, four seasons landscape.

 

[rockm]

The point is that the tree has LOCAL HISTORY with notable bonsai figures. The same kind of attachment comes with more well known figures. If someone said a tree was developed by John Naka, Yujji Yoshimura, Nick Lenz, Vaughn Banting you would not blink an eye paying extra. Just because this tree’s genetic lineage may not adhere to strict parameters doesn’t mean it’s some kind of rip off. Local bonsai figures who have fostered LOCAL bonsai back when it wasn’t fashionable are worth remembering. They’ve left a legacy on that community regardless of what “outsiders” think. John Naka was one of those “local” figures to begin with after all.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

edit: nevermind

 

[Ruddigger]

The point is that the tree has LOCAL HISTORY with notable bonsai figures. The same kind of attachment comes with more well known figures. If someone said a tree was developed by John Naka, Yujji Yoshimura, Nick Lenz, Vaughn Banting you would not blink an eye paying extra. Just because this tree’s genetic lineage may not adhere to strict parameters doesn’t mean it’s some kind of rip off. Local bonsai figures who have fostered LOCAL bonsai back when it wasn’t fashionable are worth remembering. They’ve left a legacy on that community regardless of what “outsiders” think. John Naka was one of those “local” figures to begin with after all.

Sure, because those are notable figures whose work most of us respect. I don’t know who Grandpa Seuss is, so there is no value add for me personally. If there is for you, that’s great. I wouldn't mind owning a Ryan Neil tree, but nothing about this tree screams Neil to me.

For me it’s a stick with wire scars.

 

[Rivian]

The 15K Satsuki was a cultivar or no? Amazing if it went for that while being a random seedling. And the ramification doesnt seem a great argument because they have to be cut back very hard every handful of years anyway to prevent aging branches, or so Ive heard.

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks for sharing this link @Maiden69 it must of slipped me by https://live.bonsaimirai.com/academy/video/japanese-maple-secondary-work

"Im gonna cut off these pieces and work with this piece. Why?
"I dont like the notion of growing a 'perfect' structure on a Maple. "Cutting everything off and growing everything from scratch".

"It strips the soul out of the tree"

Beginners take note, Ryan is spitting gems. Its the kind of stuff you should be tapping in to, regardless of how long winded he can be.

 

[BobbyLane]

Show me another source on the internet that goes into detail about moving branch lines and how moving one branch affects another. Who else talks about branch relationships, in regards to styling deciduous trees? The guys down at the club? Your coach?

"How much do I want to come up with this, all depends on this line here" Who discusses this stuff?
This is all Gold. Someone asked where they could watch an online tutoriol recently. Watch this and his other streams. There is nothing like this anywhere IMHO.

 

[pandacular]

Grandpa Sisson...

Anybody from the region ever heard of him?

I have not—certainly not an artist represented in the Puget Sound region, or our lovely museum.

edit: I’m assuming this refers to Ira Sisson’s grandpa

 

[Wood]

"Im gonna cut off these pieces and work with this piece. Why?
"I dont like the notion of growing a 'perfect' structure on a Maple. "Cutting everything off and growing everything from scratch".

"It strips the soul out of the tree"

I don't quite know what you intended to communicate with this statement, but it read to me as traditional Japanese maple stying is bad and should be thrown out.

He's talking specifically about removing the tiny adventitious shoots at the base of this branch where there was a cut was previously done. Two sentences later he says that removing the small stuff is just fine "assuming we have good structural pieces there". Maybe it's just me, but the context makes this seem like a significantly less philosophical statement than what I read from your post

 

[rockm]

Sure, because those are notable figures whose work most of us respect. I don’t know who Grandpa Seuss is, so there is no value add for me personally. If there is for you, that’s great. I wouldn't mind owning a Ryan Neil tree, but nothing about this tree screams Neil to me.

For me it’s a stick with wire scars.

There is obvious value to people who may have worked with him or knew him though. Thats the point. It’s a tree that appeals to a particular audience that is in Mirai’s physical neighborhood. If you’re asking who the f he is then you’re probably not that audience

 

[Ruddigger]

There is obvious value to people who may have worked with him or knew him though. Thats the point. It’s a tree that appeals to a particular audience that is in Mirai’s physical neighborhood. If you’re asking who the f he is then you’re probably not that audience

I believe we’re saying the same thing.

 

[BobbyLane]

I don't quite know what you intended to communicate with this statement, but it read to me as traditional Japanese maple stying is bad and should be thrown out.

He's talking specifically about removing the tiny adventitious shoots at the base of this branch where there was a cut was previously done. Two sentences later he says that removing the small stuff is just fine "assuming we have good structural pieces there". Maybe it's just me, but the context makes this seem like a significantly less philosophical statement than what I read from your post

View attachment 601251

That isnt what he said. Its great that youre watching though, this stuff should be shared more.

 

[Maiden69]

but it read to me as traditional Japanese maple stying is bad and should be thrown out.

If I recall correctly, Kimura told Ryan that to come to the states and not change bonsai as it is right now would have been a waste of an apprenticeship. Pretty much what Kimura did for bonsai in Japan.

I think the main issue is that most people tend to reset the tree too damn often, instead of reading into the tree and figuring out where to take it from there. The main example of this here is @MACH5 Sergio, every tree that I have seen him take over is not chopped to a stump and start over. Is looking at what is there and enhancing it. I think this is where Ryan methodology is slightly if not entirely different from most traditional work out there.