Instant Bonsai..The New Trend???

[wireme]

Is it more common now to wire a branch from elswhere on a tree to fill an empty space than to patiently grow a bud or graft into position over many years?
If that's the case we may be sacrificing some future quality.

Re: Some of the instant masterpieces being created nowadays, I suspect if you spoke to the artists creating them they are also only looking forward to the trees being much better in 30 yrs and consider them to be far from finished presently.

 

[berobinson82]

Aren't bonsai nurseries in America getting more plentiful? They take care of the first 10 years of developing material so that artist is ready to start styling right away. That could be an "instant" bonsai if the material is healthy and in season to work. That, along with the increase of collection in America, could have led to a faster finished product than was possible 20 years ago.

 

[gergwebber]

as a relative ingnorant with NO "showable" trees, I see and feel the instant tree impulse every time I peruse the bonsai blogs/forums. But as a student, I cannot afford much of anything in the name of truncked starters, and big pines and pots and such (thank me later).

I was at maruyama's today and saw some amazng stuff. But what I enjoyed most was a conversation with a local ABAS member and her take on culture and soil and layering etc.

Now I have lots of stuff in pencil range (thanks Lone Pine gardens!) and stuff that is thick but also devoid of taper and I get silly urges to chop and force feed notrogen and all... But what I really want is a (singular) or maybe just a pair of nice trees to look at while the rest do what WE will. So in short, need to get after one of those olives I saw the other day.

plus we always need people at the mid and lower rungs to make the top look all the better!

 

[Poink88]

plus we always need people at the mid and lower rungs to make the top look all the better!

True, but I hope we slowly move up and not get stuck at the lower rungs.

 

[GrimLore]

True, but I hope we slowly move up and not get stuck at the lower rungs.

I often get that feeling working with "tiny" stock but the way I figure it I will continue this way for a couple more years and by then I will probably puchase some nice larger material to work with like Brian did a couple weeks back. For now I am content keeping things alive and learning a lot that is needed before I do that.

 

[jk_lewis]

Ahhh, but have you noticed how impatient people are today -- about EVERYthing. Especially the young people (for me, anyone under 50!).

People want things (the world's most acquisitive society), and they want them NOW.

 

[Bill S]

Rob, another point could be how much time one would dedicate to bonsai, it gets to proper application of the "technology" for best performance by one that does it better each time work is done. As well as having the guts to stick with the original vision.

 

[Poink88]

Ahhh, but have you noticed how impatient people are today -- about EVERYthing. Especially the young people (for me, anyone under 50!).

People want things (the world's most acquisitive society), and they want them NOW.

JKL, True but on the other hand, some want others to slow down when they do not have to. Just because it took you decades to produce a descent bonsai, don't impose to others they have to do things your way. (wink, wink)

There is a happy medium and if someone can get what they want now...there is NOTHING wrong with that. To me, TIME is the most precious commodity...no need to waste it.

 

[GrimLore]

Ahhh, but have you noticed how impatient people are today -- about EVERYthing. Especially the young people (for me, anyone under 50!).

People want things (the world's most acquisitive society), and they want them NOW.

Oh I fully understand that -just so happens I am way "laid back" and often shake my head a bit as the world "races" by. I have also learned some valuable things along the way. A great example is I witnessed someone buy a perfectly nice Juniper almost custom grown to be a rather nice cascade. They took it home, bare rooted it, changed out soil, potted it, trimmed it, bent it and it promptly died a few days later... geesh They saw the potential but they wanted it NOW...

 

[GastroGnome]

I'll echo a few points and make a few of my own. Techniques have definitely gotten better, and changed. Consider Nakas pine management in techniques! Additionally, grafting rather than waiting for buds, modern substrates and inorganic mixes, improved maintenance and fertilization, these all speed the process. The availability of more yamadori, field grown stock, and more people farming their own trunks has also quickened things up...but has it? A yamadori tree has taken decades or even centuries to grow in that manner, age in that way, so it is, in one way of looking at it, a much longer period than what we're talking about.
Another point I'd echo and agree with is the need for and acceptance of low to mid range hobbyists. It's a common misconception: not all bonsai in Japan is that good. Take a twirl around yahoo Japan sometime and you'll see more mallsai than you can shake a stick at.
Ryan
Http://Japanesebonsaipots.com

 

[gergwebber]

Ahhh, but have you noticed how impatient people are today -- about EVERYthing. Especially the young people (for me, anyone under 50!).

People want things (the world's most acquisitive society), and they want them NOW.

I totally agree. For the most part we use our face books and genius phones to complain about baby boomers and how much better off we will all be when they all get the out of the way and let us fix the mess they've left us.

really we are all like that too.

get out of the way already EMOTICON!

 

[jeanluc83]

Instant bonsai make for exciting demonstrations. Having someone walk on stage, cut a half a dozen branches, say the tree now needs to grow out for a year and then walk off is not that exciting. It is also the reason you see mostly non-deciduous bonsai for demonstrations.

Also “Instant” is a bit of a misnomer. All of the “instant” trees have had some work done previously.

It comes down to having good material in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[GrimLore]

It comes down to having good material in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

And it takes years to know how to keep things alive, collect, winter and 1000 or so different things. I am taking the slow road simply giving me the confidence to purchase some good stock down the road while playing with lotsa sticks

 

[Poink88]

And it takes years to know how to keep things alive, collect, winter and 1000 or so different things. I am taking the slow road simply giving me the confidence to purchase some good stock down the road while playing with lotsa sticks

I understand your choice and respect it but IF you can start with better materials now w/o it costing you much more, will you do it?

I mean if all the fruits of your efforts can be transitioned over to the next level easily and not have sticks at that time, isn't that better? The risk is there but investment is almost the same but the potential reward/return is multiplied...isn't that the wise route?

 

[GrimLore]

I understand your choice and respect it but IF you can start with better materials now w/o it costing you much more, will you do it?

I mean if all the fruits of your efforts can be transitioned over to the next level easily and not have sticks at that time, isn't that better? The risk is there but investment is almost the same but the potential reward/return is multiplied...isn't that the wise route?

I just see me as being overwhelmed if I get to much going at once and as with "pets" the plants are already a pain when we travel. We work it all out but must be considered. Also I figure before I get my hands on some larger stock a lot of my small stuff will prob not need as much attention. I have nothing against the way ANYONE chooses to do things - just I am doing what is best for me.
Wife: We have 2 spare acres of flat property, want to put up a nice greenhouse systems?
Me: No, I barely trust the guy to cut the lawn proper, what would make you think he could take care of all that when we are away...

 

[october]

I just see me as being overwhelmed if I get to much going at once and as with "pets" the plants are already a pain when we travel. We work it all out but must be considered. Also I figure before I get my hands on some larger stock a lot of my small stuff will prob not need as much attention. I have nothing against the way ANYONE chooses to do things - just I am doing what is best for me.
Wife: We have 2 spare acres of flat property, want to put up a nice greenhouse systems?
Me: No, I barely trust the guy to cut the lawn proper, what would make you think he could take care of all that when we are away...

Hi Grim.. I commend you on your views to approaching bonsai. It is rare that you read someone saying they want to learn first and do later. Learning is key. In todays access to information, it is certainly easier to learn about bonsai today rather than 10-15-20 years ago.

In the meantime though, you can always get a couple of nice junipers that are relatively inexpensive and that you can work on. Nothing wrong with jumping in and working on a tree. Juni's are tough, forgiving and in Winter, they can be left alone for awhile which would give you some time to travel. I think the addition of a couple of nice starter trees will make the hobby even more appealing to you. Just become familar with the 5 styles of bonsai, then get to shaping those junipers into the style you think the tree best matches.

Rob

 

[bonsaibp]

There is no such thing as instant bonsai-period. Sure I can take a good piece of material and in the right season make it look good in a couple of hours or so but that's only the beginning. No matter what it takes time to develop the ramification, bark etc. that make a bonsai. Time is the single biggest factor in the creation of a bonsai.
Also the knowledge of the viewer comes into play- someone with no experience may consider a 1 gallon nana wired and potted a bonsai someone with more experience wouldn't.
A good artist can make the initial styling "look" like an instant bonsai but that's just the framework to build the bonsai on over time.
I've won a couple of raffle trees from conventions where branches where moved from one spot halfway around the tree to fill in space in another that looked great initially but a few years later they turned into problems when it came time to cut back to maintain the shape and form. Eventually all of them had to be drasticly restyled.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think we are having difficulty defining what is and what is not an instant bonsai. A conflict in terms and a conflict in perception. To me an instant bonsai is a tree that can be designed from raw stock well enough that it can be put in a bonsai pot and exhibited at a club show and not be laughed at as a stick in a pot. It has all of the elements that will improve as the tree ages and does not need a lot of modifications to shape, branching and ramification that will make it look drastically different than the day it was first put into a bonsai pot. That's my perception of an instant bonsai. This is a doable event.

 

[milehigh_7]

True, but I hope we slowly move up and not get stuck at the lower rungs.

Yea cause that NEVER happens...

 

[milehigh_7]

While I am excited about finally starting to put trees in bonsai pots, it has never been WHY I do this. My story dates back to my earliest childhood memories walking the forests of Colorado with my grandfather.

Now I live in Las Vegas... In short growing little trees keeps me sane. It is truly a labor of love. "Instant Bonsai?" No thanks.