Corkbark black pine, Ondae

[Adair M]

Brian, you beat me to it. I was going to say to graft on some branches on that middle section, or maybe graft an apex there.

(I learned to graft at Boon's Intensive. While walking around his garden and talking with him as he watered his trees, he pointed out trees that had been grafted in the past. While I won't say that most of them had been, many had been. 30 to 40%, maybe. That was an eye opener. So, you know how we all say we want to work on superior material? He would take a great trunk, and then place new branches where they were needed. After 5 years, you couldn't tell it had been a graft unless he told you.)

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

1. With all honesty Brian, can you come up with same solution in say 5 minutes after looking at the pics you posted?

2. Your decision to keep the upper trunk...is that the only way or is that purely your personal choice?

3. Are you sure that none of us thought of grafting the trunk?

4. Can you post pics of trees that in your opinion don't have any potential? Maybe we can play with it the same way you presented your case.

1. I wouldn't have come up with it if I hadn't studied with some pros. That's my point, the investment of time pays dividends...can turn problem trees into decent trees, and put more tools in the (mental) toolbox.
2. No it's not the only way, but other options exist than to chop away. Chopping it off is rather hasty, and probably needs more than 30 minutes of consideration to remove that much of the tree, when all it's lacking is a branch.
3. Didn't say nobody thought of grafting. Several did...
4. I did, now its your turn. We both know this Ondae is junk...best case is these grafts take and can develop. Worst case it's in the ground. Neither is quick, but chopping it back would be double the time needed.

 

[fredtruck]

I think the first thing I would do is forget trying to make it a swan. I would keep working with it, but leave a possible solution to the tree's problems open ended. Make small changes as they occur to you. When you really have a vision of what the tree can be, then make the changes necessary. I don't think you have a dead line, so let it rest.

 

[Brian Underwood]

As I've said before, I often come home from an intense workshop where I "increase the number of tools in my mental toolbox" and look at all my trees with new eyes, and new possibilities arise. Ooh, that rhymed... Good stuff Brian, and a good point. I hope all the grafts take well!

 

[Poink88]

4. I did, now its your turn. We both know this Ondae is junk...best case is these grafts take and can develop. Worst case it's in the ground. Neither is quick, but chopping it back would be double the time needed.

I can't because unlike you, I believe all trees have potential....though some might take considerably more work and time. For the record I didn't consider your tree a junk. I've seen a lot worse.

Re: graft & design, some saw it w/o studying with the pros...they just didn't choose that route. My point is working with the pros is probably the best way...but not the only way. Everybody here probably would love to study under the pros but cannot due to time, availability, and budget constraints. That doesn't mean they know nothing....maybe just less and maybe will take longer like the "junk" trees to develop. As I said, we make do.

 

[Poink88]

Re: your graft. I would have done 2 on that main trunk...one opposite the other.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Re: your graft. I would have done 2 on that main trunk...one opposite the other.

Agreed 100%, good to see another idea besides chopping it down.

When you have a chance, take a workshop with a pro, and have an open mind. Learning in a vacuum is very limiting, and bonsai is very technical, more so than artistic, I believe. There are right ways to wire, and reasons for it. If you believe all material has potential, it should follow that your obligation is to have the ability to bring it out.

 

[Nybonsai12]

seems you had an agenda with this thread, and it didn't have anything to do with corkbark black pine.

 

[Poink88]

Agreed 100%, good to see another idea besides chopping it down.

When you have a chance, take a workshop with a pro, and have an open mind. Learning in a vacuum is very limiting, and bonsai is very technical, more so than artistic, I believe. There are right ways to wire, and reasons for it. If you believe all material has potential, it should follow that your obligation is to have the ability to bring it out.

The reason for recommending the chop is because IMHO grafting will take much more time to blend than repositioning one of the lower branches.

As mentioned, I would love to but beside the availability of trainings here and financial consideration...the biggest hindrance is free time. I am the sole driver in the family and have to carpool my wife and child to their work and school. Most schedules won't allow me to attend the training w/o sacrificing something else. I chose to hold off my bonsai education and help my family.

I had a chance to work with Kathy Shaner for half day for free (to me) maintaining the club trees under her tutelage as a volunteer. My biggest (bonsai) compliment came from her when she stated that I cannot be only into bonsai for a year knowing as much as I do. That actually got me tongue tied (imagine that Dario tongue tied!?) LOL. She repeated it too so I know she meant it.

 

[Nybonsai12]

I had a chance to work with Kathy Shaner

Lucky! I had chance to see her do a demo, but Hurricane Sandy stole that chance and it had to be cancelled.

 

[Poink88]

Lucky! I had chance to see her do a demo, but Hurricane Sandy stole that chance and it had to be cancelled.

The thing is...it is an annual thing that I can take advantage of. Usually a 1.5 to 2 day event for the maintenance (club pays her) and prior to that she holds 2 days of workshop as well that we can sign up to. She clumps them up to lower the cost. I am considering taking the week off to take advantage of it but nothing concrete yet.

 

[misfit11]

Great stuff, Brian. Last month Kathy did a demo on grafting JBP as can be seen in this months newsletter: http://www.rebsbonsai.org/February 2013 newsletter.pdf . I see you do her Parafilm method. It looks pretty slick. I'm doing a workshop with her in a couple weeks where I hope to do grafting on my Blue Atlas Cedar http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9158-Blue-Atlas-Cedar

Grafting is a pretty sweet way to improve material. You certainly weren't going to get branches on that bare section of your tree any other way. I hope the graft takes for you. Keep us posted!

Cory